Sir Loone, Tony1...Here is your chance to convert me!!!

MY DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO THOSE WHO LOST FRIENDS AND FAMILY IN THE DISASTER ON TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. I sincerely hope you find the strength and comfort you seek in these trying times.

Now at the risk of being called an inconsiderate jackass, I ask that those above skip the rest of MY post.







Tuesday at work during a shift change we were discussing the events of the day. One of our crane operators is also an ordained minister. He said "Everyone, We must all remember that this is ultimately god's plan." At this time all you heard was "Amen" and "Yeahyouright!" (New Orleans term) I quickly blurted out, "Have you all lost your F*cking minds, how can you all agree that this is 'God's Plan'"

So now my question to y'all is....How can you concievably believe this is His plan? Was this prophesized exactly, like wormwood? If it wasn't than explain that, don't give me any "well, this one could fit it". On a day with no absentees, 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center. Now add to that the Pentagon, and to that the Airplanes themselves, and to that the tourist that are always in the center on tours. We still haven't accounted for the rescue workers lost trying to save the people. Something of this magnitude must have been prophesized somewhere, right?

I'll have to check Nostradomus for that one, he's gotten more correct than the bible, so far. Now the reason I asked about the prophesy is because of the date, Sept 11, 09-11 or 911. Anyone know about the Bible codes?

As an ex-marine I voluntarily offered my life for the sake of everyone's peace. These people were never given that option. They were civilians trying only to survive and support their families. Had it been a military base, I would understand, we're conditioned that to die for the safety and survival of others is an honorable thing. To die for no reason, is a reason to kill for.

Now convince me this was god's plan.

 

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Read Job. In the Bible...

We're not entitled to live long lives. We're not entitled to avoid tragedy. We're not entitled to die peacfully. We're not entitled to be in peace. There's a time for everything.

God is not required to give people everything they desire. He's entitled to do what He feels is good.

Good will come of this and considering where those who died are, I can't imagine they care they died. A moments pain for an eternity of happiness isn't a bad trade. Those people weren't punished. They weren't picked on. They're time on earth was decided before they were even born.

But you don't believe that way so that's why you bitch at a God you don't believe exists. It's a paradox. If you believe in God, you accept his decision to take all those people home, if you don't you bitch at God.

What's that all about?

Even if God doesn't exist, it just removes the ability for you to bitch at a higher power. It doesn't remove the fact that people in large quanities die in extreme situations at times.

If God didn't exist the holocaust still would have happened. If God didn't exist the Titanic still would have sank. If God didn't exist China would still abuse it's people. If God didn't exist America still would have bombed Japan twice. If God didn't exist natural disasters would still take lives by the thousands.

You're justing looking for someone to blame.

Major changes are going to take place over the next several months. We have to be patient. Good will come of this.

Ben

 

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Not Quite The Answer I Was Looking For

Interesting theory, but I didn't say it was god's plan. I said he lost his mind. The minister put the blame on god. I would state the reason he chose to explain it, but then that would accomplish nothing. Everyone would only jump on his bandwagon and not give their reason for believing it to be god's plan.

So, making people suffer makes god feel good. That definitely won't convert me..

This quote appears to question god's plan, or lack thereof. At the very least, stating that these things were not planned, and came to be without the supervision of a supreme being.

Now, along the same lines, President Bush quoted from the bible in his speech. Psalm 23(?) Though I walked through the valley of the shadow of death...
Then in his next breath he was vowing to seek out those responsible and make them pay. I agree with that, perhaps the slowest and most painful death to them all. But, does the bible not state "Judge not, Lest ye be judged?" Would this not put him on the same level, in the eyes of your god, as those who committed the crime on our people in the first place?

 

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It's to know you thoroughly missed the point of everything I said.

God does what he feels is good. Not "God does what makes him feel good."

There's a huge difference. Good job on completely missing that and twisting my words. Don't be a troll.

"Judge not"
Don't quote scripture when you have no idea what it means and then try to tell me what God thinks about something.

----------------------

You're just looking for someone to blame. If God didn't exist everything still would have happened. If God does exist it all had a reason. Whoever did it had no good reason for doing it but God had a good reason for setting it up to happen.

You'd rather believe there was no reason (as if God didn't exist) and then blame God because you can't see a reason.

That almost makes sense.

Ben

 

Wow, KalvinB ... you ARE honest

At least we know why you have faith. Tell me, do you call God a whiny bitch?

thanx,
Tiassa

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Why would I do that?

Ben

 

Shall we try this again?

First, it's my thread and I'll be a troll if I want to be.

Second, I believe the "judge not" quote is self-explanatory...if it means differently, let's hear it.

Third, that's the whole point of this thread. I'm not trying to start a debate. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS YOUR OWN PERSONAL REASONING BEHIND THE STATEMENT "IT'S ALL PART OF GOD'S PLAN"

 

When I figure out what his plan was I'll let you know, okay?

We're just starting this story. I bet when we look back we'll see a lot of great things that happened because of this attack.

First off the nation finally agrees on somthing. 86% approve of Bush's overall job in office. 91% approve of how he's handling this situation in particular. The highest approval rating for a president since Bush Senior.

Maybe God's plan is to get the final Armageddon underway. He's letting Satan have run of the world for a bit.

I don't know. Besides it's perspective. We can say "it's good we're finally going to bomb the shit out of Afganistan and get rid of those terrorists" or whatever. The citizens there will think we're the bad guys.

Whatever God does, it's never viewed as good by everyone. If you can't try to see the perspective from all parties involved you'll never see the objective view God has of this situation.

"what is the reason"

Wait for it. It may take years for us the figure out why the hell this all happened. That doesn't mean there isn't a reason.

Ben

 

That's a fair enough answer, KalvinB
Thanks for the imput.

Anyone else have any ideas...without a debate

 

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
MY DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO THOSE WHO LOST FRIENDS AND FAMILY IN THE DISASTER ON TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. I sincerely hope you find the strength and comfort you seek in these trying times. *

Amen.

*As an ex-marine I voluntarily offered my life for the sake of everyone's peace.*

Thanks.

 

NOSTRADAMUS SPEAKS

"In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city. . . In the city of york there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls. The great leader will succumb. Third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - NOSTRADAMUS

1]2001 is the first year of the new century and this is the 9th month.
2]New York is located at the 40.5 degree Latitude.
3]Bush had declared war while the building continued to burn.
4]He specifically said third. World War III would be the third big war.

 

Re: NOSTRADAMUS SPEAKS

5]WTC is a twin tower building.
6]Pentagon is like a fortress after it's recent renovation.

 

What's your source? There are some fake quotes making their rounds these days. That one seems a little too "not vague" to be Nostradamus.

-edit-
http://skepdic.com/nostrada.html

Surprise surprise. And on a skeptics site even. You should probably check the source BEFORE posting something like that. I found out about this while reading Slashdot. I did a quick search for "Nostradamus" on google and found that page.
-/edit-

Ben

 

Hoax or not, as long as those twin birds/brothers thing was written before Sept 11, 2001, I would say it's pretty good prediction.

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um....it wasn't.

Maybe if you post one more time without doing research it will be a genuine prophecy.

Until then it's just one big giant lie that got your "open mind" hook line and sinker. That's what happens when you leave your mind open to whatever pigeon droppings happen to fall.

That was kinda gross.

Ben

 

Here, if you want to get some pigeon drops. Pay attention to what this guy(Xinoehpoel) said on Sept 4, 2001, and his words about "in seven days".

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s_maxy=2001&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995

 

What the hell is wrong with you all?
I thought this was going about god, and if it was gods wil that the terrorists attacked and made so many innocent victims.

All none believers I guess, other wise they should have been saved by the noble god.
Or was it the time for all those people to die in your good gods eyes??
Silly people!!
After all this death and destruction you quarrel about a note, false or not, written , or not, by Nostradamus centuries ago.

No, this was pure evil, made up by humans, monsters, really, but humans.
Don't make the mistake to compare these monsters with animals.
Animals are better.
They kill with reason, to live, to eat and sometimes because they are afraid.

The victims who died are in good hands now, in Love, in the dimension called home.
Not heaven, much better, incredible.........
But no heaven and no hell.
Even the terrorists are there.
But even in the Cosmos you will be confronted with your doing here on Earth and you have to live another live.
Hopefully to learn to do things better, in a different way
This is called Carma.

Think of it whatever you like....

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Banshee, so you have passed judgement on the terrorists and know their fate. How does the cosmos think? Does the cosmos think?

I thought you said everyone goes to a state of happiness when they die or is the cosmos going to let these people incarnate another being on this Earth to kill more people?

What proof do you have of this?

 

Deadwood, I do not judge the terrorists.
I thought this would come, this question.
Even the terrorists are there, in the same dimension as the victims, in Love.
Hard to believe??
Why??
This terrorists have built their own Carma, so they have to deal with their own Deeper Selves.
The Cosmos is the home-front from every human being, so also from the terrorists, how hard it may be, it is the truth...

How else can everybody be forgiven, other than by looking at your own deeds in your past life.
So you have to look at that. And please, do not forget that these terrorists are braught up from child of, with the idea America is bad, the enemy.
So even those terrorists have feelings and regret.
So indeed they will get another chance.
But how??
I do not know, I am not all knowing....
I am happy too, to be not all knowing.
Imagine, what misery you should see, day and night.

I only tell you, what I know, what I saw, and what I think on behalve of what I know and saw and learned and did myself.
My thoughts, only mine.

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This is what I am looking for, proof. I'm sorry if it seems I am pestering you but you dislike us quoting from our source to say why we believe because these things have come to pass as said beforehand yet you say that what you say is true because you say so without giving any proof. This is why I don't follow anything blindly.

The atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ as prophesied and fulfilled. This is how else you will be forgiven. To be forgiven there must be something to be forgiven of [our sins]. Jesus has paid the price for everyone. Many reject Him and want to go their own way. So they put their fate in their own hands and will still have to face God in the end just like me and give an account.

I see your idea of the cosmos contains justice as well as love. So it is with God. But remember Gods mercy. Remember Jesus' sacrifice for your sins and believe in Him as your saviour and you will be saved. This is why we say to repent(turn away from you old ways of sin and turn to back to God) and be baptized.

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