Jesus was a Palestinian martyr

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Brian Foley, May 10, 2004.

  1. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus was a Palestinian a Palestinian Jew, but still a Palestinian
    Jesus was a refugee and lived under occupation. The term "Palestinian" has been in use in the region dating back to the original inhabitants called "Philistines" by the Jews and rabbinical Judaism didn't exist in Jesus' time since it was developed after the destruction of the Second Temple in 2nd century AD. When you read the story of David and Goliath, you see Israel as Goliath and the stone-throwing children of the Intifada as David .
     
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  3. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    Palestine is a Roman name given to the area about 130 years after Jesus. It has no relation to Philistines that I'm aware of.
     
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  5. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    If you believe in Jesus then he was no martyr at all, he had a mission to accomplish and he accomplished it.
     
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  7. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    Foley ... the population of Israel is about 6 million, 80% of whom are Jews. The population of Egypt alone is almost 75 million. Furthermore, given that David won his conflict with Goliath, and the Israelis have won their military conflicts with the Arab world, it would seem your comparison is just a bit backward.[/
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Technically, Jesus was the first Christian martyr, and it was in Palestine. But if you think modern Palestinians are dying as martyrs, that's not correct. Historically, martyrs are people who die for their religious faith, not people who kill themselves for political reasons.

    Suicide bombers (or homicide bombers) in Palestine are typically hailed as "martyrs" by many Palestinans (the actual percentage is also disputed) due to Islam's prohibition against suicide.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr
     
  9. skywalker 3 @ T M 3 Registered Senior Member

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    Post like these just cracks me up.

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    Jesus was not a martyr! Simple as that and YES he was a Real Person, since that is the other claim by lots of peeps.
     
  10. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus death could be more accurately described as a sacrifice. Jesus established a faith. to be a martyr you must die for a faith. Stephen was the first recorded Christian martyr.


    "Jesus was a Palestinian a Palestinian Jew, but still a Palestinian"

    This has been answered at the time of His execution the land was called judea not Palestine. Jesus was born from a hebrew mother not a Palestinian mother.

    "Jesus was a refugee and lived under occupation."

    While it it true that Jesus lived in a land under roman occupation He was not a refugee. to be a refugee He would have had to have been exiled from Judea.


    "The term "Palestinian" has been in use in the region dating back to the original inhabitants called "Philistines""

    Philistines where a nation that lived within a kingdom in the land of Canaan. The land of the philistines was located in northern isreal. Before the time of Jesus the Jewish nation split into two kingdoms. In the North was Isreal and in the south was Judea. The Northern kingdom was conquered by the Asyrians and did not exist as a Jewish state at the time of Jesus. So there is no connection to the kingdom Jesus lived in and the Philistine peoples.


    "by the Jews and rabbinical Judaism didn't exist in Jesus' time since it was developed after the destruction of the Second Temple in 2nd century AD."

    You are right rabbinical Judaism didn't exist in the time of Jesus. Without the temple in Jerusalem Old Testament Judaism cannot function. The temple was destroyed in the year 70 AD by the Romans and the Jews where exiled as punishment for their rebellion against the Roman empire.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  11. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Unarmed Palestinians against the behomouth Israeli military isnt a goliath situation ? And as for Israel winng ... with the US superpower arming , bankrolling and guaranteeing Israels survival . Pitting the Zionazi army against technologically backward 3rd world Arab states ..... hey go figure .
     
  12. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Thats the information I have come up with in many links remember it is in Israels interests to cloud and misinform of Palestinain history .
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Why are arab states technologically backward?
     
  14. DoctorNO Ultra Electro Agnostic Registered Senior Member

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    The modern day palestinians are mostly nothing but the decendants of arab muslim conquerors & immigrants.
     
  15. DoctorNO Ultra Electro Agnostic Registered Senior Member

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    YOUVE BEEN DUPED, DUMMY! Philistine =/= Palestine. QUIT PASSING THAT PROPAGANDA!
     
  16. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Because of fear.

    For many muslims modernism is westernism and westernism is immoral decadence. So they fear that is some way adopting modern technology or systems of government or organization will cause them to become as immoral and decadent as the western world. In their religion they need to adhere to moral laws and anything that temps them into immorality must be avoided even if it causes them worldly troubles or disadvantage.
     
  17. Halcyon Guest

    I can't help but respect that. Not the "adhering because of religion," but the "adhering" standing by itself.
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    So, western style capitalism/democracy is inherently incompatable with muslim culture? Doesn't it seem like this is the real cause for conflict in the middle east? Isn't a guerrilla style war inevitable?
     
  19. ConsequentAtheist Registered Senior Member

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    Antisemitic rubbish. Perhaps you could supply peer reviewed archaeological references to Iron Age Palestinians.
     
  20. Proud_Muslim Shield of Islam Registered Senior Member

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    What a load of BULLSHIT.

    The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations.

    The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11543891&dopt=Abstract
     
  21. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Yes a guerrilla style war is inevitable and is happening as we speak but this guerilla war is not confined to the middles east it is now world wide. So there is no opportunity for the western society to retreat because there is no safe base for retreat. Therefore an escalation to total war is inevitable as long as guerrilla action is occuring in the western cultures homelands.

    The greatest danger for world peace is not Islamic fundamentalism it is the effect of aggressive Islamic fundamentalism on the west, for the greatest danger is the radicalization of the western populace against the Islamic world itself. When that occurs then total war will be pursued against all holders of the Islamic faith radical or not. If you think this scenario is alarmist just think of the effect on the US people of the detonation of a suitcase nuclear weapon on Manhattan island New York. Don't think this could never happen. The now deceased former Russian General Lebed told the US that 21 suit case nuclear weapons where missing from the Russian arsenal before he died in an "accidental"

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    helicopter crash.

    The recent happenings in Iraq have only confirmed the deeply held views of many on both sides to the nature of the other. The acts of sexual immorality perpetrated against the prisoners confirmed in the minds of many arabs and muslims in general their views on the decadant immorality of the west. likewise the video of the hacking off of the young American mans head confirms in the minds of many westerners of the violent and sadistic nature of arabs and muslims.

    The only way out of the current path to distraction that i can see is if the religious leadership of the Islamic world take steps to bring an end to the radicals tactic of attacking the western homelands and also for the leadership of the west to withdraw from middle eastern affairs. But i do not see any of these things happening. There comes a point where the momentum of the situation reaches such a point that even the leadership will no longer have the ability to stop disaster.

    All Praise The Ancient of Days
     
  22. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    I suggest that people learn to read the Bible critically. Read the stroy for the story not as a book that is lie=teraly intended in all its manifestations and editorializations.

    The Books of Atthew, Mark, Luke and John describing the crucifixion are enlightening. Pilate didn't get to be where he was in the Rioman hierarchy by being a wimp. In all four books, Pilate denys Jesus is guilty of anything then abruptly he changes his mind and sauys "OK ,whack him" Three books have the women, mother etc. "looking on from afar". Th event wasn't public. Joseph of Aramatheus gets Pilate to give up the body to him for burial, though this was an act that was just not done. The Roman crucified people so the multitude could see what was instore for the enemies of Rome. The average hanging time was two or three days for a healthy male, yet Jesus succumbed in approximately 9 hours. Jesus takes some substance just before "dying". Simon carried the cross to the spot where th ceremony was held. Pilate had the inscrioption "King of the Jews" placed on the cross while those calling for his death wanted something that said Jesus only claimed to be the King. Pilate didn't budge.

    Read the story and you will see that Jesus lived for us he didn't die for us.

    Take the water into wine event. Jesus' mother orders Jesus to get some more wine. She then orders the servants to do what Jesus tells them to do. Reluctantly Jesus agrees and does his little number in the back room.
    Question: Whio is responsible for supplying the wine at Jewish weddings? The groom. Why would a mere guest start ordering sevants around like Mary did. At any social function even today that would be inexcusbly rude and presumptuous and the most crude of people don't do thing like that, unless the wedding was Jesus' and he was supplying the wine. Sure, it was a miracle, like Jesus showing up four days after lazarus died and resurrected him after first stating that Lazarus was suffereing from a sleeping ailment, nothing serious. Lazarus was Jesus' brother in law and they needed a miracle resurection to spread the name of Jesus around the countryside. It worked, didn't it?
     
  23. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: 'Palestine', the name of a geographical region, does not occur in the Bible but is roughly synonymous with the expanded kingdom of David, slightly larger than the old Canaan. It was first coined by the Greek writer Herodotus (about 484-425 BCE) as 'Palestine', a corruption of the name of the 'sea peoples', the Philistines, who overran the eastern Mediterranean in the twelfth century BCE. In biblical times Palestine included the narrow strip of land bounded to the west by the Mediterranean and inland by the Arabian desert. To the southwest, separated by Sinai, lay Egypt and to the north was the western extension of Syria.'

    [From Mary: The Unauthorized Biography, by Michael Jordan, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London, 2001, page 19].
     

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