Let's talk about fools. (Me for being away for so long!) Don’t Fool with Fools Robert M. Bowman, Jr. The ministry of apologetics is difficult for many reasons. One such reason is that, by its very nature, apologetics requires us to present answers to people who don’t believe the gospel and who may have strong feelings or opinions against what we are saying. This aspect of apologetics discourages many people from doing it. They conclude that apologetics is a waste of time because the people who need it (unbelievers) don’t want it and the people who want it (believers) don’t need it. I don’t share this view. In my experience some unbelievers are open to reason and evidence, often because they are in a process of moving from belief to unbelief (though it’s impossible for us to “peg” such people infallibly). Others are not. We are called to answer people if they ask us for answers, but only up to a point. That point is reached when the people to whom we are responding behave like fools. I know what some of you are thinking: who am I, or who are we, to judge who is or is not a fool. In a sense that isn’t up to us to judge. I certainly don’t go around calling people fools. However, in a sense we are called to make a judgment call or to discern when someone is behaving like a fool. After all, the book of Proverbs is full of warnings to avoid getting into debates with fools. Those warnings would be hard to follow if we weren’t able to make some determination as to who is showing themselves to fit that category. Not everyone who disagrees with us is a fool. Please remember that! The book of Proverbs gives us very clear guidance to help us recognize when we are dealing with a fool. Three characteristics stand out. Fools always think they are right in such a way that they are unwilling to learn from others (Proverbs 12:15; 18:2). Thinking you’re right doesn’t make you a fool; speaking as though no one can possibly teach you anything does make you a fool. Fools are not merely those who don’t understand, but rather are those who are unable to understand because of their distaste for wisdom (Proverbs 23:9). Not all who are ignorant are fools. Ignorance can be cured by imparting knowledge; foolishness cannot. The fool doesn’t merely disagree with the truth—he expresses an inability to understand even elementary truths. Fools respond with hostility and anger or with laughter and ridicule (Proverbs 29:9). When people react emotionally to the truth, either angrily or scornfully, they are fools. A merely ignorant person expresses puzzlement or confusion; the fool, even after misunderstandings have been clearly addressed, continues to mock, scorn, or attack the truth as something he considers stupid or evil or both. When you become convinced that a person is a fool, don’t call him one. Replying in anger or sarcasm to a fool is wrong; when we do that we lower ourselves to the fool’s level. Proverbs tells us not to respond in such a way (Proverbs 26:4). The right way is to respond by confronting the fool with his lack of wisdom without sinking to his level (Proverbs 26:5). Just describe objectively and calmly the behavior that makes reasoned dialogue impossible. “I’m sorry, but if you can’t get past your anger toward Christianity, as long as you feel as hostile as you do, I don’t think there’s any point in us trying to discuss whether Jesus rose from the dead or not.” Such a statement lets the person know that he is speaking foolishly without attacking him. Keep in mind is that you should rarely conclude that an unbeliever is a fool. To some extent foolishness is a universal human “disease” (I’ve certainly acted foolishly on far too many occasions!), but most people are not out-and-out fools. If you’re constantly judging people as fools, you’re either in a very strange place or you’re operating from an overly broad standard of judgment in the matter. I hasten to add that most people are ignorant; that is, most people do not know nearly as much about the Bible or basic Christian truth as they should (and this goes for far too many Christians, too!). But again, ignorance is easily curable for those who want to know the truth. We should be very patient with people who don’t know or don’t understand but who show a willingness to learn. We should give everyone a chance to demonstrate such willingness, giving them the benefit of the doubt at first. Only after someone has shown rather emphatically and unmistakably the signs of foolishness as specified in Proverbs should we conclude that our time would be better spent elsewhere. Thank God that even foolishness can be cured. However, the cure is the illuminating, convicting work of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 2:14-15). That’s something that wise apologists leave up to God. I have been foolish before, but I just wanted everyone to remember that after reading some recent posts. I won't name any names, but you know who you are. -Kevin P.S. WHATS UP PEOPLE!? -Ocelot
Proverbs 26:4-5. I remembered that one Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I agree with you, but I assure you that the "unnamed" people on this site can be provocatively obnoxious at times. I thought this was a place to exchange ideas and so on, but it seems the only thing they agree to doing is argue. No matter what you write, they will blatantly persist in arguing their case, even when it evidencly does not stand the storm. I don't believe anyone came here in search of "truth", but you must also be careful to follow the words of Scripture I showed, since "there is a time and a place for everything." ------- That was more of a releasing of emotions than a theory on embettering this subtopic. Maybe later I will post something more "intelligent", after all that's what this forum is about, eh? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
describes narrow minded believers/theists perfectly dont it! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! yeah right get rid of science, close all the schools and let your Holy dumfucks take us down to the flat Earth reality,where prayer solves all problems,sicknesses,etc, and end up in a Gods paradise similar to Iraq,Afganistan and the rest of the idiotic places where religion rules! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I don't see how you possibly extracted those statements from anything he just said, but sure, whatever! Ignorance.
Q25, I know many bright, educated people who are theists. I have several scientists in my family who are also believers. Anyone can be unbending in their ideology including atheists, capitalists, communists, socialists and nationalists. Rigidity is not the sole province of those of us who believe in God and try to act accordingly. Jesus never said the Earth was flat nor did He ever say we should remain ignorant, uneducated and stupid. The Bible explicitly tells us that God helps those who help themselves. Theocracy is more about politics than it is about religion or spirituality and I think you know that. (I hope you know that). The US, where 75% of the population worships regularly, enjoys a much higher and freer standard of living than does Iran, where only 55% of the population attends regular worship. India, the world's largest democracy, boasts a devoutly religious population and churns out geniuses at an astounding rate. The US and India account for the majority of intellectual property created today. I see no evidence that religiosity, spirituality and intelligence cannot be complementary.
JesusisLord51: You are aware that by characterizing athiests as "fools", you have doomed your soul to eternal hellfire? Mt. 5:22 BURN, FUNDIE, BUUUURNNN!
A Guide for atheists – the issue of the apologetics. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. (Psalms 14.1) Take note and beware that this is Christian propaganda that has been used for 2000 years to berate and persecute those who do not conform to the will of the Christians. Christian arguments have never withstood logic and reason so they must resort to emotionalism and propaganda as part of their basic tactics. The topic here is a thinly veiled all out accusation that all atheists are fools, although there is a token statement that attempts to lessen the outright insult – ” Not everyone who disagrees with us is a fool.”. Note the phrasing implies that most are considered fools. But let’s deal with the apologetic – these people hold a total conviction that Christianity is true and their objective is to convince others of their perspective. They differ from conventional Christians in that they use rationalization as their primary technique. This means taking something that is inherently irrational and making it appear rational. The technique uses subtle and often tortuous language constructs to achieve its goals. The apologetic argues that he is using logic and reason which of course is blatantly false. It is of course impossible for any religious argument to be based on logic (logic requires evidence). The skilled apologetic will maintain a strong knowledge of the bible and Christian doctrines, and will readily admit to many of the inconsistencies in the bible and the frequent attempts at erroneous literary interpretations by many conventional Christians. Their other primary strength is their ingenious imagination at rationalizations that will twist the obvious nonsense of Christianity into fantasy interpretations that often appear credible. There are only two possible outcomes that can result from a debate with an apologist – you will give in because you are improperly prepared or it will end in a draw. The apologist has no interest in an objective debate or a desire to listen to any alternate views or perspectives. They are religious fundamentalists of the worst kind. Their minds are entirely closed to any idea other than Christianity being true – you can never win against such closed minded attitudes. Is it worth debating with an apologist? No it is a pointless waste of time. They are not interested in true debate. Think of the apologist as an infant who has imagined an invisible play friend and insists it is real. There is no arguing with such a mind. Just be kind, gentle and polite, and go talk to someone more mature. Kat.
Paula, The correlation between religion and standards of living is false. Most of Europe also have very high and some say higher standards than the USA but only a fraction of Europe compared to the USA worship regularly. E.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1043986.stm What is an astounding rate? Do you have any examples? What statistics can you provide? This appears to be a baseless claim. What is your source? These statistics collected between the dates of 1927 and 1986 show that there is a negative correlation between religion and intelligence. I.e. the tendency is that if you are religious then you are likely to be less intelligent than someone who is not religious. http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/iqstats.html Kat
SouthStar, How so? I do not maintain beliefs in imaginary invisible friends neither do I have a special agenda for trying to convince others of my perspective. I'm sure you have a strong desire to refute my statements but you will need to try harder and make some sense, rather than simply throw personal insults. Perhaps you could be more specific since I covered a number of issues. Kat
I think the genius-churning-out rate is rather irrelevant. Does that "devoutly religious population" have a high standard of living?
