Hitler and God....

[Undecided]

How much of a role did God play for Hitler's judgements on Jews?

I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

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I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46]

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And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.174]

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I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so [Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

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I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 2]

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The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]

Just some of Hitler's quotes on religion, was this merely propaganda to win the German people or did Hitler really think it was God's duty to do what he did? Does this absolve the theory that evolutionism was the major role behind Hitler's policies? Because I really don't know, and I would love to see quotes discuss racial policy on evolution.

[everneo]

To augument his authority, Hitler would selectively pick-up anything from anywhere.

[Undecided]

But that doesn't answer my question, did Hitler ever use evolution to excuse his treatment of "inferior races"?

[Bubblecar]

Hitler did indeed subscribe to some crude "Social Darwinist" ideas of a Nietzschean kind, but it's important to remember that these ideas owe virtually nothing to Darwin & his theory of evolution by natural selection, & much to an aggressive & superstitious racism that Darwin would have found absurd.

For example, in Mein Kampf Hitler wrote, "The Jews formed a sub-human counter race, predestined by their biological heritage to evil, just as the Nordic race was destined for nobility."

It's also important to remember that what Hitler did or didn't subscribe to can't really be interpreted as "rationally held belief", or even just "honestly held belief" - he was a supremely cynical & manipulative person who was really only interested in personal power. He was dismissively anti-intellectual, glorified "action" over reason, & never obliged his worldview to be consistent or make any sense.

[Undecided]

Ok, thank you very much Bubblecar I agree Hitler only used theories to excuse his own megalomania. But which was more instrumental to Hitler? Christianity, or Nietzchian ubermensch mentality?

[Bubblecar]

Ok, thank you very much Bubblecar I agree Hitler only used theories to excuse his own megalomania. But which was more instrumental to Hitler? Christianity, or Nietzchian ubermensch mentality?

That would be impossible to fairly judge without a very thorough knowledge of the Nazi's racist indoctrination & propaganda programmes - which made use of the church as well as most other social institutions to some extent. Whether a religious or pseudoscientific angle would be emphasised would have depended on the context.

Hitler himself would not have been directly responsible for most of this - racist propaganda was delegated to people like Goebbels & Streicher, although vast numbers of people in positions of authority in the education system, popular media, youth groups etc were all expected to play their role in disseminating racist (especially anti-Jewish) propaganda.

[joe smith]

Hitler was psychotic, any reference he made to god was merely food for the masses. Indeed it was his most important weapon of validity.

[15ofthe19]

Read this a few months ago. It's good, not great, but definitely if you are interested in Hitler's relation with the church this book will answer many questions. It's been out for a few years. I wouldn't pay retail. Try to find a used copy, or better yet, the library.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...92861?v=glance

I'm not convinced Hitler suffered from genuine psychosis. At times he was very capable of rational thought and behavior. I would point more to his xenophobia and lack of education to explain his behavior.

[hypewaders]

Hitler's disgusting mind isn't worth bothering much about, but his shallowness and confusion are clear enough in Main Kampf for anyone who wants to wallow therin. I think it's more instructive and important to carefully examine how Germans were seduced into blindly following a charismatic nationalist into hell on earth, because we are in similar circumstances today in several countries.

[Undecided]

I think the question becomes was Hitler really an intellectual? Or was he a man who was surrounded by intellectuals? I don't think any of us can deny the sheer intellectual capability of the Nazi party, Goebells, Himmler, Goering, etc. These men were the brains of the operation, Hitler was no lightweight himself. But how much can we put on Hitler? Was he really the Party, or was the Party him?

[gendanken]

Undecided:

Ok, thank you very much Bubblecar I agree Hitler only used theories to excuse his own megalomania. But which was more instrumental to Hitler? Christianity, or Nietzchian ubermensch mentality?

All three.

Religious, philosophical, and artistic dogma all rolled into a tiny, ugly little man with a mustache- that's why he worked.

His appeals to Christianity reconciled his program to the ignorant but faithful, his appeals to philosophy appealed to the learned but faithless, and his artirstry appealed to them both and all the other folks shaking in their closets after the first World War.


Jesus helped.
Nietzche helped.
Heidegger helped.
Wagner and Strauss helped.
Astrology helped.
Goebbels helped.

Get any nation as vulnerable as Germany was at the time and on a dime you could wipe out uncertainty by what comes so naturally when humans need to feel secure again: scapegoating.

[Rappaccini]

I've always wondered...

Did Hitler really believe in the hollow earth and the Luminous Lodge of the Vril-ya?

I read about it some where... in a galaxy far far away...

[gendanken]

Rapiccini:

Did Hitler really believe in the hollow earth and the Luminous Lodge of the Vril-ya

?

Details, fellow, details. I'm all ears.

[Bubblecar]

"I don't think any of us can deny the sheer intellectual capability of the Nazi party, Goebells, Himmler, Goering, etc"

There was nothing even remotely intellectual about the Nazi Party - it was essentially a gang of thugs & sociopathic misfits. Indeed Nazi ideology was characterized by a mindless & particularly vicious anti-intellectualism - book-burnings, arrest & imprisonment of prominent intellectuals, & their replacement in public life by superstitious racists, mystics, frauds & opportunistic propagandists were all part of the Nazi strategy of stamping out free & rational thought.

Nazism was never a rationally coherent doctrine - it was a crude mixture of politics, pseudoscience & religion, designed to appeal to the emotions, not the intellect.

Certainly some of the top Nazis were fairly intelligent & cunning men, but they were anything but "intellectual" in attitude or habits.

[Undecided]

But what can be argued is that they were the ubermensch we wouldn't characterize their tactics as intellectual, but what we characterize with our ethos is exactly what they wanted to get rid of. If anything the Nazi leadership was an intellectual base, the policies are questionable unto themselves, but the leaders weren't some dumb bum of the streets of Vienna like Hitler was, Goring for instance was a very wealthy man, and fought in the Luftwaffe. Yes the Nazi's were stupid in some instances, but it is impossible to be smart without being stupid.

[gendanken]

Undecided:

If anything the Nazi leadership was an intellectual base, the policies are questionable unto themselves, but the leaders weren't some dumb bum of the streets of Vienna like Hitler was

That's right- they were publicity whores in need of attention. So's the hippie with dreadlocks walking down the street in his filthy underwear. What's the difference?

Goring for instance was a very wealthy man, and fought in the Luftwaffe.

So? Bush was in the airforce....... and it took days for a sixteen year old to get his pilot's liscense and slam his plane into the side of a building. Remember Charlie?

And the Hunk that Sunk- another idiot with wings.

Yes the Nazi's were stupid in some instances, but it is impossible to be smart without being stupid.

Don't be so quick with your impossibles.

[sweet Pentax]

hitler didn´t believed in god , he believed in rationalism
btw, you are wrong ! hitler was smarter than goering , goebbels and himmler together

[Undecided]

gendanken

Well I don't disagree with what you are saying per se. But every politico and political party is "publicity whores" politicians need to be. I mean Germany wouldn't have been won over with the truth would it? What is scary is that Hitler pretty much did what he said he was going to do, from re-vitalizing and employing a country that had a 32% unemployment rate by the time of his accession, to making Germany powerful again, almost winning the war, and pretty much got rid of European Jewry. Yes of course the leaders were ppl who would we consider bastards (to put it lightly), but one cannot deny the diabolical genius these men had.

[hypewaders]

Wehrmacht Belt Buckle

[Rappaccini]

Gendanken

Links on the Hollow Earth, the Nazi occult, the Vril... et cetera...

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa011199.htm
http://paranormal.about.com/library/.../aa090400a.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/hollowearth.html
http://www.darkensouls.com/corner/holloea.htm
http://www.unmuseum.org/hollow.htm


Probably the best one:

http://herso.freeservers.com/hollowearth.html


The hollow earth mumbo-jumbo has always intrigued me, especially that one story, I can't recall it's name, that describes the Vril-Ya, a technologically advanced race of super-beings dwelling beneath the surface.

Also, I think that "Vril" was the tongue of the ancient Atlanteans:

http://www.crystalinks.com/vril.html


But... even after all my reading on the topic, I can't be sure that Hitler himself actually believed all this...

The Vril Society, or Luminous Lodge, arose during Hitler's time, and it is thought that some of his ministers, even he himself, were members.

Another good one describing the Thule Society, a German order contemporary to the Vril Society:

http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html


This site has tons of information on the Vril and the Thule and Germany during these occultist groups' prime.
http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/sw...m#anchor114253

'Nother link on the Thule:
http://www.btinternet.com/~j.pasteur/ThuleSociety.html



Hehe... I tend to believe that Hitler did, in fact, hold the Vril close to his heart, but, of course, it's all eldritch, cabalistic whispering... meaningless...

... the stuff of Poe... very interesting, though.




Edit:

I found that story I mentioned. It's called The Coming Race.

A terribly hoary, odd tale.