Predicting the predicted

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Quantum Quack, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Scenario:

    Man goes to a tarot card reader. The reader stated clearly that the man will have a motor bike accident in 10 days time.
    The man then stays away from motor bikes for the next 10 days and on the eleventh day gets run over by a truck.

    He goes back to the tarot reader and says that the reading was false as he didn't have a motor bike accident and instead on the 11th day he got hit by a truck.

    The tarot reader says that she predicted his future and he tried to avoid it and the destiny of having an accident just simply changed from that which included a motor bike to that which included a truck.

    The man asks the reader then why didn't you just simply predict that I would have an accident and not be so specific. The reader says that she is also a product of the mans destiny and what she told him was part of their destiny together.

    So the question for the forum is asking about thoughts and ideas about how prediction often corrupts the predicted.

    Say, you predict a horse is going to win a race, you then go to capitalise on the prediction and instead of winning the race the horse dies in the stalls. Could it be that the prediction was either wrong or was the horses destiny an attempt to defeat the predictor.....ha ha this gets soooo complicated.....

    In physics we always rely on the ability to be able to predict experimental outcomes. When dealing with the material reality this seems quite capable but when dealing with life forms such as people etc it seems to fail nearly all the time.

    The precognition paradox

    I ask why is this so do you think?
     
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  3. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    I don't believe in a preordained future. I do read tarot cards, however. (This is one of the many apparent contradicitons that make up my world.) As far as how a prediction can upset itself, my husband is big on quantum physics, and there was something he had mentioned that was impossible to observe, like a light particle or something, during its travel because by observing it you would alter its nature. Damn, I wish I could remember the whole thing.

    Anyway, in a similar vein, by observing the future (if possible), you alter the nature of the future.

    For the record, I never use tarot cards to read the future. I use them to help people solve personal problems.
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    And yet you change the future by aiding the person with their problems which are predominantly fear of the future issues.

    hmmmm....so the consumers sense of future ( the problem) is being mitigated by your advise therefore changing the consumers future ( less fear)

    hmmm.....

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  7. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Except that it is not a "future" that causes their concern so much as possible outcomes or else variables, the nature of which are currently unknown. (Oh, they most likely know what those variables are. They just aren't at the forefront of their thoughts.)
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    So you would say that whilst the future can possibly be predicted with some accuracy it is in no way pre-ordained.

    I mean to say that we can predict all we like but this is in no way intrinsic to the future that actually will occur, more a calculated speculation than a truth. A bit like a metaphysical stock market....ha

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  9. zonabi free thinker Registered Senior Member

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    interesting.

    i would say that its a mix of both ends of the spectrum, if thats at all possible to understand. like, the future (destiny) is already planned out, but it needs to follow thru with those plans in order for it to actually work... and sometimes it seems like extraordinary forces help try and make sure that fate plays it part out like planned...

    premonitions, and predictions are all still valid. defenitely, and they also help guide and forsee trouble, but often nothing is done about it. we ignore the visions, or predictions. i speak more of global view, the world.
     
  10. Votorx Still egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    Here we go. Although I do not believing in predicting the future i will say what i believe would happen if such a predicition was made. First off corresponding with what you said before the incident with the horse you said the man was warned of a motor bike accident. Therefore he stays away from bikes but ends up getting hit by the truck. This psychic never said what kind of bike it was. At what time during the 10 day would he get into the accident. How the accident would occur, where, and if or if not the man would live. All he knows is that he's going to get into an accident. With this in mind lets move onto the horse. He knows which horse is going to win, where he's going to win, and when he's going to win. the only question is HOW is he going to win?

    Solutions:
    1. The predictor succeeds in killing the horse. With this recent tragedy the race is posponed untill further notice. This was a great horse with many titles and was honored for it's speed and stabillity, there fore the judges decide to honor this horses death by proclaiming him the winner of the race. Does the prediction come true? Yes it does for the the predictor never said how the horse was going to win the race, they just simply state the horse wins.

    2. The predictor states the man will lose the race to a specific horse, therefore the man decides to kill the horse so he won't lose the race. Once the horse is dead he takes his bids and thinks he will win. Like what happened witht he man with the bike the mans destiny is altered ever so slightly. Although the horse who will original win the race is dead, another horse taking it's place will win. The man will never bet on a winning horse since it was predicting he will lose the race, no matter which horse he kills.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe at the horse race there are the other people who all have predictions given of winning on a given horse. Each person is betting on a diferrent horse. All persons feel certain they will win as predicted but of course destiny will only allow one horse to win and as it turns out none of our 11 persons wins. Maybe destiny just don't like being tested and as an act of rebelion tries to prove every one wrong.

    It is often said that we create our own destiny and I feel this is very true but until we can do it properly then it is a fickle ability.
     
  12. Votorx Still egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    Dude, think about what u just said. One psychic gives 11 people each a different interpretation of the future. This obviously shows that the psychic cannot see the future and is randomly guessing what MIGHT happen in the future. Now here's a real question for you.

    Predestination. The idea our fate and destiny was created at birth. Now you talk about altering our destiny. What if you destiny was to be told the future. Then by altering the future we are simply furfilling our destiny? Can we actually change destiny with this is mind?
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Two things worth considering.

    Firstly I made a mistake in that I failed to tell you that all 11 persons there to win were told by 11 different psychics.

    Secondly and the reason I used this example is that we may very well have a pre determined fate but this only exist when every one elses is considered. Quite often we all make te mistake of thinking of destiny in isolation. The destiny of one person effects the destiny of every one elses and vica versa. Many years ago i wrote a letter explaining my ideas of karma and destiny, I have pasted it here and if you are not to bored with it you may find it of interest.

    Please accept that it is a six year old document. I haven't bothered to revise it.

    Karma Nature


    The subject of Karma is very complicated and all who talk of it have a different idea of what it is. I too have my own understanding of it and I hope that you too will form your own understanding in time.

    Whilst I have not found any reality to the concept of previous lives and I might add I looked very hard for it, I accept that inherited Karma is possible. But for me knowing either way is not really important.

    However what I do understand by experience and careful consideration is that if we do inherit our Karma, this inheritance is given us at the time of conception as opposed to birth. Our nature is formed, that is who and what we are, at this time and our karmic destiny is already in existence by the time we leave our mothers womb.

    We enter a reality that immediately impacts on us as our NATURE allows, thus our Karmic NATURE determines our lives in CONJUNCTION with all that occurs to us both at a sub-conscious and conscious level.

    It is my belief and knowledge that everything is connected to everything, that we are sub-consciously connected to each other. Every thought, decision, action is impacted on by this connection with all. The DEGREE of IMPACT being determined by our Karmic Nature.

    So as we go through life we travel with everyone as a companion, their Karmic natures also affecting our responses etc. So we have an incredibly INTRICATE web of INTERACTIONS going on.

    Our Nature (sometimes referred to as our BUDDHA nature) determines how we react to everything that happens to us.

    So obviously it follows that the more we know our true nature the more we are aware of our individual Karma. It also follows that we become more aware of the karma of others as well.

    It could be described as “Setting up the Rules (at conception) then allowing the game (life) to be played to see how it goes and what the outcome is”. An adventure to be played, yes!

    A GENUINE fortune teller has achieved a greater degree of this awareness and can “see” your Karma as clearly as they can see their own. Also it is their nature to be RECEPTIVE to the connectedness and make judgements based on this receptiveness. This ability is often referred to as Clairvoyance. But please accept that these people are far from perfect and their perception is governed by many things such as described above. To truly SEE your path or Karma is extremely difficult and requires enormous acceptance and love of life and reality (Also the right Karma as well).

    Within all this we have the ability, if our Karmic nature allows, to reach our highest natural needs such as the perfect love etc. The need to look in this direction is all part of the picture at conception. So when you feel that your search is strong then consider that this is also your Karma (Nature). As to whether you achieve your ambition is another issue again and is dependant on everyone else’s Karma as well as your own.

    I suppose I could go on to suggest that if you achieve a greater understanding of yourself and your needs then you will no longer need a “medium” such as the fortune teller to find the truth of your path in life.

    The question as to why you have inherited this Karmic nature is not necessary as only this life is the one that is of importance. Knowledge of past lives is nice but can mislead you into action that is actually against you present Karma Nature. Find yourself and your Karma is revealed. Allow for changes in directions and realisations and flow as best you can. As we all do whether we are aware or not. Awareness leads to less conflict with what is our BIRTHRIGHT and therefore greater contentment and happiness.

    This is how I see Karma and this is only my experience with it. I look at what I know and say to myself that this is quite logical, if not scientific and I find no conflict with reality.

    Summary

    Our Karmic nature is present at conception.

    Past life awareness is unnecessary if not misleading.

    Our existence is governed by the impact of other peoples Karmic Natures.

    The degree of impact is determined by our Karmic natures.

    The more we know ourselves the greater we are aware of our Karma (Birthright)

    Our success in achieving our Karmic needs is dependent on the Karmic needs of others.

    The more self-aware the less conflict with our Karma, a happier existence follows quite naturally.

    So there you have it, I'd love your comments on how it could be improved.
     
  14. Votorx Still egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    Well im not here to improve what u just said for i do not believe in karma. Infact i believe more in predestination. Of crouse if the actions of what we've done during out life time did affect our fate destiny then of course your idea of karma would be right. But what i believe is, is that if you did go to a fortune teller and this psychic did give you a reading of your future, then u were ment to learn of what would happen. Or better yet you were ment to be decieved by this person into believing her in what is in your future. When u learn of this you fate may infact be ur need to change in what u believe to be your supposed future. By doing this your actually furfilling your destiny without actually altering. Nothing we do can change our destiny. If you go back in time to change someones fate, then maybe their destiny relied on you doing so. If you think about it everything that is done may have been ment to happen, even your attempt you change the future.
     
  15. Votorx Still egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    1,126
    About the 11 psychics and the 11 men. If this was to happen then all 11 are fake. To make a false prediction which had no chance of happening shows them each to be a deicever.
     

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