Bob Lazar

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by VRob, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    Now, I'm not saying I believe outright, anything that Mr. Lazar has claimed. However, I've been wondering what it is, specifically, that has labelled him to be a fruad?

    - I understand that his education, and some of his employment background, has been unable to be verified. However, he did pocess a internal phone book from Los Alomos with his name in it. He also has a check stub, or W2 form with his name, address, and pay amount from the Department of the Navy.


    He obviously must have had some type of an education, to gain employment as a scientist with the Naval Dept to be employed as a civilian scientist at Area 51, and/or Los Alomos Laboratories. Is it too far to speculate that his records could have been erased?

    He could very well have been used as a disinformation source.

    I don't think there's any dispute that he worked at Area 51.

    He obviously knew the schedule of when some test flights of some unusual aircraft were being run as he brought along associates to view these tests on more than one occasion.

    I'm also aware of his arrest, which I suspect has damaged his credibility as much as anything. However, unless I'm unaware of some things, he was really only guilty of setting up a security system for a Nevada Brothel. He had no other involvement in this line of business. In addition, this is Nevada. Where some counties, this line of business is perfectly legal. I have a hard time discrediting his claims based on this unfortunate incident.

    This is a serious question.

    Why is his story considered fruadulant?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Ives Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    88
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    He claims to have an advanced degree in physics, yet in many interviews he makes freshman level errors.

    If he worked at area 51, I think his job was to clean the toilets. This guy strikes me as a wannabe that never finished college.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,855
    Bob Lazer is a perfect example of why NO efforts or monies should be expended towards the study of UFO’s and other such pseudoscience. The amount of effort others have had to go through just to show that his claims are nonsense is a travesty to science and an insult to intelligence.

    Death to UFOlogy! Death to Pseudoscience!
     
  8. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    Q, we finally agree on something.

    Aren't you glad that people like me are willing to do this for free?

    Of course, I never said that he didn't work there. I only said that his job was to clean the toilets; this may have included the alien's toilets.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  9. Star_One Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    268
    No, Its people like him (if he is lieing), that give ufoology a bad name ....and give people more resons not to look at REAL evidence etc....

    LONG LIVE UFOLOGY
     
  10. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    Ives, In response to your link,

    I've actually spoken directly to this Mahood guy, and after briefly viewing more of his incosistency's with Lazar's story, I think he's reaching to discredit Lazar as much as Lazar could be fabricating the entire story.

    FACTS:

    Lazar worked at Los Alomos.

    Lazar's records at Los Alomos have mysteriously disappeared.

    Lazar worked for the Dept. of Navy at the top secret Area 51 base.

    Lazar knew when certain unusual test flights were being tested.


    Now, what exactly is it that people are questioning? I'm not just going to fall in with the company line, that if the majority think he's a fruad, he must be. I'd like to hear some specific examples.

    IMO, Mr. Mahood could just as well be purposely attempting to discredit Lazar for his own reasons. He didn't convince me Lazar's a fruad in 1995, and he hasn't yet. If that's all you people have, then I have no other option but to keep this door open.

    Please, I'd like some specifics.
     
  11. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    This is a very generalized comment.

    Some examples please.

    As much as a proponent needs to do to remain credible, a skeptic needs to provide adequate information to discredit another. I have yet to hear anything that removes Lazar's story from the collection of data.
     
  12. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    You, my friend, are not worth the effort.
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    Whoa there! using the word 'mysteriously' is loading the issue, somewhat! They can't find his employment records, and the way I seem to recall it, was because he worked for a company that was contracted to Los Alamos, and was never employed directly. I'd not heard of the check stub, although a single one does not constitute employment. It could have been reimbursement for ruining his shoes while unblocking the plumbing. Do we know what the amount was on said stub?

    I've worked for some pretty big companies, and they've lost my records before. No mystery, it just happens. Just for the record, while I have worked in the aerospace industry, I never reverse engineered alien spacecraft. So when my records went missing, it was just someone putting them in the wrong drawer of the filing cabinet, no conspiracy needed. Maybe, someday, they'll discover Bob's employment records, alongside his requisition form for a new broom, .....
     
  14. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    Phlogistian,

    I understand that records can be lost. However, I find it difficult to believe his education AND employment records can all suddenly disappear at the same time. I just don't believe in coincedences like these.


    So, what your saying then, is the fact that he was ever employed at Area51 is debateable?

    - He does have a check stub from the Dept of the Navy.

    - If he never worked out at Area51, then how did he know of at least 2 test flights, of very inusual aircraft? Now, I'm not saying this is absolute proof, but it does provide some collaborating evidence.

    In addition, CalTech & MIT are very closely tied to the military &/or defense contracts. I do not consider it a reach for those institutions to remove the Records of Mr. Lazar. Once again I'll state, I don't think he'd be employed (or contracted too), Los Alomos or the Dept of Navy without some valid credentials. ie: an education.
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,855
    Please, I'd like some specifics.

    The specifics are in the link Ives provided. If you are unable to identify and understand those specifics, then you are unable to intelligently question the specifics.

    You, my friend, are not worth the effort.

    I keep hearing that from gullible believers who can’t stand someone raining on their fantasy parades.

    I also doubt you are able to make 'an effort.'

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    The check stub was for about $400. I think there is only one.

    How did the government manage to remove his picture and name from all of the Cal Tech year books? Even if he never showed up for pictures, the name still appears. Also, no one at Cal Tech knows him. Why can't he produce one friend from college?

    QED.
     
  17. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    This is what motivates my idea that he held some nominal position at 51: He knew when and where to see UFO's. Quite a few witnesses and some very impressive film seem to corroborate this story.
     
  18. VRob Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    658
    Ivan,

    I agree. I haven't come to any conclusion on his story. I just find the reasons he's now considered a fruad, to be a little lacking.

    He hasn't attempted to turn his story into a Huge money making machine.

    I can't answer his education inconsistencies. But, I think for anyone to get a position at Los Alomos in a tech job, or a phisicist position, has to have some type of an education. Not to mention a position at a high security military base.

    The position I find myself leaning the most towards, is that he was given some disinformation. Don't have a whole lot to back this up with, except that I think he's basically telling the truth as far as he sees it.

    I also have grown more suspect of Stanton Friedman as the years go on. He has been one of the loudest critics of Lazar, and I've recently questioned many of his positions and motives lately.

    Anyways, thanks for the responses. As far as I'm concerned, this just goes into the ???? category. I can neither confirm, nor deny this story. Unfortunately, it's where most of my data ends up.
     
  19. Ives Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    88
    Interesting comments in this thread. I'm interested in your reasons for your comments about Friedman; I've actually grown to like the guy recently. I confess that the first few times I saw him on TV, he had a certain wild-eyed look that threw me off. I was also confused about the exact nature of his educational background.

    You have to admit he is a dogged researcher. I think it is too bad that he has spent so much time on MJ12, since some of his analysis of UFO is quite good. He is far too committed to the ETH for my comfort, though.
     
  20. Ives Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    88
    I forgot I was also going to comment on Lazar. My position on him is to think about him as little as possible. Following someone like Lazar is a path to nowhere.

    How is the study of UFOs advanced by his presence? The most we can do is engage in speculation as to whether he is a simple fraud, and not a very good one, or a disinformation plant.

    I've heard theories like, "The disinformation people need to take in people with suspect backgrounds, so that later, when they spill the beans, the truth will be coming from an unreliable source."

    While there is a certain crazy logic to this, how would we ever figure this out? I think there are far more productive activities that might advance knowledge regarding UFOs than feeding Lazar's ego.

    Just my two cent's worth.
     
  21. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    I think the coincidence wrt his education and his employment is that both are exaggerated, nothing sinister.

    He has one check stub, like I said that can be explained in a few ways, if it's genuine.

    His education, well, he can't provide the name of a single college buddy. Nobody has come forward. There are NO records, in yearbooks, nothing. A professor he claims to have taken lectures from was actually a teacher from his High School. To me, this indicates he never got to college, and therefore probably had a mid-technical role at Area-51 at best. He may therefore have picked up some information on flights, and seem some strange happenings, but it's a hell of a leap to reverse engineering alien spacecraft!

    It's been fifteen years since I left left college, and I can remember people, both fellow students and academics, that I could talk to to verify my attendance, btw. One of the record keeping mishaps that happend to me, was that I had to prove my academic qualifications to an employer I'd worked for some years previously, before commencing a new role with them. They were supposed to keep that stuff on file for seven years, but had lost all the records in just over four. I found the relevant certificates, presented them, and started the job. You keep hold of proof of academic qualifications, I just don't understand how Lazaar could have lost his!
     
  22. Xevious Truth Beyond Logic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    964
    That is a valid observation. Everyone who walks the stage at a university gets a degree in hand. Why hasn't Lazar produced his, and if he has why has no one I've heard mention it before?
     
  23. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    My comments?

    We don't always see eye to eye, but I think highly of Friedman...I think.
     

Share This Page