The problem of evil!

[nico]

The Problem of Evil has been a problem since the beginning of Christian philosophy, a question that Thomas Aquinas had tried to tackle. The problem of Evil is basically the question of God not being able to stop evil thus logically he is not all powerful, or the other argument that if God is omnipotent then why doesn’t he stop evil? Thus he is not all good. The question that was presented was one of a historic event [creation of Israel]. Rather I will explore a historical event that according to God will have “evil” consequences, for those whom he sees as non- believers.
The state of Israel is contrary to popular [indoctrinated] belief is not based on the religious principles. The Torah has said that the only time in which the Jewish people can come back to Israel would be when the messiah comes to save them. Yet today Israel exists? So the question is what then is Israel based on? It is based on the ideology of Zionism. Zionism is a atheistic belief in a race of people who trace their linage Hebrews, yet not Judaism. They [Zionists] don’t want a religious state of Israel rather they want to create a goy [a non-Jewish] nation.
Why is this a issue? God said in the book of Revelations about this issue of
Israel: “Revelations 2:9
I Know Your Works, and tribulation and poverty, (but you are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Yisrail and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan”

Thus what God basically said that those who fooled the Jewish people into believing the “Synagogue of Satan” which in other words would be Zionism. “…say they are Yisrail…” Zionists claim to have brought Israel to creation, but obviously God envisions modern day Israel in a very different light. This brings me to why God is not all good.
The Bible claims that the Messiah [Jesus] will come [for Christians] when a series of events happen. One of those is the state of Israel would have reached it’s zenith of power. Obviously to God Israel is not a religious state, frankly God told all the Jews to live in exile until the Messianic era. Now according to Christian dogma we as Christians will inherit the Earth, yet according to the same god Jews will? How can this be so? The bible also says that those who do not convert to Jesus’ ministry will die. The current Christian Zionist movement in the US supports Israel for two main reasons:
i) For the coming of the Messiah.
ii) And the conversion of the Jewish people’s into Christianity, those that do not will perish.

Is that the view of a compassionate God? How can we seriously say that our god is being good when what is being done is evil? When he is wiling to kill those who are not part of him? Is that what we are taught to be good is it not? Tolerance and peace for a better world. This is not an issue to be taken lightly. How can we believe in a God that will kill Billions in those who don’t convert or believe in him?
One of the most venomous arguments against Zionists and their state of Israel is their “compassion” in the past for their dying brothers and sisters in Nazi Occupied Europe. Most of there Jews were God fearing ones at that, meanwhile the atheist Zionist movement was flourishing which some Nazi Party officials even claiming to be Zionists! Yet the religious Jews were killed? Here are some the callous words spoken by one of the many prominent Zionist’s at the time. “One Cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland” “If I am asked, ‘Could you give from the UJA moneys to rescue Jews’, ‘I say, NO! And I say again NO!’[Izaak Greenbaum]” [head of Jewish Agency Rescue Committee, February 18, 1943 Addressed to the Zionist Executive Council.] (The brutal Zionist role in The Holocaust, Jews against Zionism) Yet 6 million of god fearing Jews were systematically killed by the Nazi war machine by the most distasteful of means! It was through this holocaust that the state of Israel was created… ironic.
God is not bad, but he has shown that he has the capacity and the will and the foresight to kill millions in future actions for their sins of dis-obeying him, which in essence makes Thomas Aquinas’ point of “God does not will evil, he wills freedom and love”. Is freedom not applicable to those who do not believe in him? The Question of God is not really in question is it? He has killed on a mass scale before in Sodom and Gomorra, the great flood, and now it seems humanity is well down the course to Armageddon with the establishment of the sac-religious state of Israel. Thus Thomas’ assessment of God not able to do evil is corrupted by the fact that he already has.

[spidergoat]

My heart is not proud, O LORD ,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.

[otheadp]

could someone please quote or at least refer me to that part in the bible that says Israel will be reborn when the messiah gets here?

[hypewaders]

Of course nobody can: The prophecy was less rosey, that after the Messiah Jerusalem is trashed again, and another of those pesky floods comes along.

(Daniel 9:24-27)
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

[nico]

Torah Jewry has never ever recognized the Zionist state. Since the Zionists succeeding in establishing their state, Torah Jewry has continuously announced to the world that the Zionists do not represent the Jewish people, and that the name "Israel" that they use is a forgery. For as has been stated above, it is forbidden to us from the Torah to rebel against the nations, and all sovereignty by us is prohibited. Rather, we await the days when all the world will recognize the sovereignty of the Creator, and the words of the prophet Isaiah will yet be fulfilled: "And they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword against any other, nor will they learn warfare anymore."

It's quite obvious that you Oth are following the Synagogue of Satan unless you have the complete gaul to actually condemn god's words, then it is undeniable. Not only have you literally commited the biggest sin you could comit against God of betrayal, I don't know what do say of your position on claiming Israel as religious, or even promised to you before the coming of your messiah. Also lest we forget Truth and his freako Christian right fans want you dead, or at least to convert to Christianity, they support Israel for it's eventual destruction. I am sorry but this time I have to say that God seems to have the plan all set out with you worshipers of Satan and your time here on this earth. Not me.... GOD!

[guthrie]

Is someone going to mention the rapture soon? [that rolleyes smiley i'm not sure how to do] Look, the 70 weeks of daniel, most likey occured 2,000 years ago, with the coing of jesus and the destruction of the temple etc etc. Anyone wanting to split the last week of Daniel off from the first 69 just makes a huge mess of it all.

[nico]

I don;t know about Daniel, but I highly doubt he was talking in the present or past tense, also my revelations and quote from the Torah show you what positions Jews are supposed to have in this world. Jew is not a race but rather defined as a religious culture and if God said so they must do it. They are trying to create a "Goy" as I said so that they can get away from their paradox.

[guthrie]

DAniel lived BC, not AD, and if you take the 70 weeks, each day in a week being a year, that adds up to 7x 70 for the number of years, and thus, the end of Daniels 70 weeks roughly coincides with the crucifixion etc. The christian right wingers you slag off for wanting to convert jews often seem to cut off the 70th week of DAniel and mix it in with revelations, in order to produce a satisfying apocalypse. I assume you are also aware of the strict Jewish sect which believes zionism is wrong?

[hypewaders]

Modern Israel is a very big theological problem, avoided and obfuscated by Christian fundamentalists, and repudiated by some movements within Jewish orthodoxy.

[Ghassan Kanafani]

For the challenged amongst us who can coprehend images better than words :



Everything Here

[nico]

It is not the sect et al Guthrie the bible said so, this is not a matter of discussion here. I was not the one who brought in Daniel that was Hype, i'll let hom do his own bidding on that one. It dosen't negate the obvious fact in relevations that God was talking about Zionists. And they will receive punishment for their sin of dis-obeyment of God. Israel is a pawn for the Christian right to get to the day of Armageddon sooner rather then later. Zionists relish in their glory..for now. Their sins have been noted and observed by the real Jewish people.

[hypewaders]

Zionism truly isn't kosher.

[Ghassan Kanafani]

At least its Hebrew

[otheadp]

Neturei Karta is a small sect of Judaism who reject zionism and the state of Israel. The rest of the jews are quite supportive of Israel.

[nico]

That is a fallicious argument so what if most believe in Zionism, dosen't make it right. That is a appeal to Popularity Oth, for instance most Indians believe in the caste system. Most catholics believed in concupiscence, dosen't make it anymore right. Zionism is a sin, and so is your beloved state of Israel.

[Ghassan Kanafani]

Originally posted by otheadp
Neturei Karta is a small sect of Judaism who reject zionism and the state of Israel. The rest of the jews are quite supportive of Israel.

Your assertion is laughable , not only does Zionism not receive support of world Jewry , they have not even convinced all the Jewish peoples inside their own zionist state .

Here is some Jewish opposition for you : movements and intellectuals , religious and secular , commie & democrats .

Dr. Alfred (Al Fareed) M. Lilienthal
Israel Shamir
Norman Finkelstein
Noam Chomsky
Dr Israel Shahak
Naem Giladi
Lenni Brenner

JATO-Jews Against the Occupation
Cactus 48
Jewish Friends of Palestine
Jewish Americans Against Zionism
Jews Against The Occupation
Jews Against Zionism
Jews For Justice For Palestinians
Jews Not Zionists
Neturei Karta USA
Neturai Karta UK
Not In My Name
Taalyiah-Jews Against Zionism

These are the Jews worldwide :

1 USA 5,602,000
2 Israel 4,390,000
3 Russia 1,450,000
4 France 640,000
5 Canada 350,000
6 United Kingdom 320,000
7 Argentina 250,000
8 Brazil 150,000
9 Australia 92,000
10 South Africa 70,000

Now if we take away all the anti-zionists/refusers/trators etc from Israel , what numbers can you show me that support Israel to take on the identity of the Jewish peoples ?

How are you going to back up your claims Otheadp ?

[guthrie]

"It dosen't negate the obvious fact in relevations that God was talking about Zionists. "

Nico- Ye whit? Which hotline to God do you have that says The revelation according to John was talking about Zionists?

[nico]

I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Yisrail and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan”


Who claims to be Israel? Not Jews, Zionists. It's not a concept for debate here.

[guthrie]

Weeell, thats certainly one way of looking at it.

[cosmictraveler]

Based on peoples wanting to control other peoples to work for them. Those in charge control the laws, education, politics and just about everything else. They want to keep their power base and grab more lands and peoples if they can. It is all humans being greedy and non caring for each other, only themselves IMO.