I know this subject has been plenty debated already but I'm still wondering how his can be overlooked by any theist. My argument has always been the natural world revolves around cruelty which seems like a case of "nuff said" when refuting the possibility of a mercifull and loving creator but I'm beginning to realise many christians simply can't empathise with animals and don't feel that animals hurting animals warrants coming to the conclusion that if there is a god he is a cold heartless diabolical monster. Well how do 4 year old children float your boat? Ok, there is an entire species of insect known as the tetse fly who's whole point of existing is to inject its eggs into the eyeballs of young homo-sapiens. The larvae hatches and litterally eats away the eye before developing into an adult and flying away to find another human eye. Apparently a creator created the tetse fly, which means he intended for children to painfully have their eyeballs eaten away and become blind before they can even speak. This is all the tetse fly knows to do, it needs to do this to survive and breed, we can't blame the tetse fly's free will on this one, and obviously we can't blame man's free will on this either. Your "god" apparently invented the tetse fly from scratch. Therefore your god wants children to have their eyeballs eaten while they scream. Its pretty straightforward, I can't see how one can argue in favour of a mercifull loving creator after aquiring this knowledge. I can't wait to watch you try though. Granted, this doesn't debunk the existence of a god, but it does bring up the question "if there is a god what kind of a god are we looking at here?" I'd say he'd have to be a creative genius, but a fairly depraved and twisted one. If he can come up with scams like this on innocent children whats to say he's not scamming those who believe in him? Whats to say his request that you follow such and such rules isn't in fact instructions on how to get into hell? After seeing the tetse fly, and accepting it was created by god, what exactly WOULDN'T you put past him? Seems to me he's willing to go to any length in order to dish out cruel and unusual punishment and he seems to get off on being outlandishly creative with this. From what we can gather of his personality, it seems tricking millions of people into accidently signing themselves into an eternity of torture and mysery is a feat he would be extremely proud of. Thats just the kind of entity he seems to be from what I can tell. You can continue believing in your god if you want, but what reason do you have to trust him after you know the sort of scenario's he likes to invent? What is it about a sadistic supervillain you find so appealing?
hehe lou you're a funny guy. Despite that funny line, which I think I will perhaps put on a bumper sticker to put on my car, you come off as a bit of a pompus ass. Theists have long had explainations for why bad things happen in this loving gods world. They say things like "Its all part of his plan" and if it really dosnt look like part of the plan (which is ineffable, so even if you really dont think it looks like part of the plan it still could be because its gods plan and none of us could possibly understand) then you can chalk it up to satan! The NEARLY all powerful (Have to make him less powerful than god to try to make your religion generaly up beat) foil to god, from wence all badness comes (Unless the badness is part of the plan... um i think) they really beat you to this one, sorry lou.
If a serial killer testifies in court that it was all part of his "plan", does that make it alright? I think not.
I stand against the idea of God because I believe in my heart that He is wrong on so many levels. I believe God(if He does exist) is the closest thing to true evil in this universe. How can one love a God who does not value human life or human experience, but instead sees us as a means to an end. We're all disposable test subjects. God's plan is what's important- NOT YOU! If you can live with that, I'd say you were a coward wearing the mask of a humble man. Oh, who am I kidding! If I was deluded enough to believe that God actually exists, I'd probably be kissing holy ass too.
That's more Abramic Sounds Abramic. More specifically, Christian. Never ran into this problem with the Goddess during my witchcraft phase. Found variations on it when I tried unsuccessfully to study Qabalism. Crowley was thoroughly obsessed with it ("My heavy hair!") It runs as a subcurrent in American literary history. Can't speak for what is commonly considered Islam, though it's not an issue in Sufism. Given the characterizations of gods in some Indian cults of lore, and given an ancient, henotheistic trend on the subcontinent, I'm quite sure the Hindus don't spend a whole lot of time on such aspects of why. I should ask my local theologian next I see her. I don't recall ever learning about the deep and ancient Mayan conflict on the question of why bad things. At times when religion was paradoxically apolitical by proxy of not being an issue of controversy, yet political by proxy of dominating life to a certain aspect, such philosophical impracticalities didn't count for much. Indeed, it mattered if you were the one whose heart was to be cut out that night, but added up, I just don't see that being nearly as big a crime against humanity as a single modern war. And what's wrong with "That's just the way it is"? Parents say that to children every day, and I loathe the occasion I catch those words coming out of my mouth as justification for limiting my daughter's options of conduct, but I know it's coming someday. "That's just the way it is," is the nontheistic equivalent of "God says," and both are an excuse for, "I don't know how to explain why, but ...." I suppose changing that would require some effort on nearly everybody's part, and if there's one thing a democratic collective will enjoys more than anything, it's being lazy and not rocking the boat.
Re: That's more Abramic Tiassa to SpyMoose: Represent, nigga'! Don't worry Tiassa we all think you are really cool for your broad range of religious dabbling, no really. And if you think that Christianity is the only religion that has ever tried to explain "why shit happens" then you're looking at the subject a little too narrowly.
Re: Re: That's more Abramic They ALL try and explain it. Most don't simply say "you can't understand" though.
Mystech And if that's what you get from my post, stop trying. Most religions outside the Abramic vein have less difficulty dealing with the idea of bad things happening. Sure they mourn and wail and ask "Why me?" That's human. But if you read through some of the conferences and philosophical works and odd justifications of Christian history especially, you'll see the ridiculous at its most refined. Take, for instance, "The Problem of Evil", by Don Boland. Really, there are some certain aspects of religion that are unique to the individual religions. An obsession with why evil occurs in a Universe ruled by a loving God is a question that is doctrinally obliged by Christian theology, and not necessarily by others. Really, some Christian discussions on the ways of evil in the Universe are charmingly and delightfully singular. Point being is that not all theists obsess on why evil in a "good" world. Mysticism transcends the question entirely. I never found the scope of a Goddess to include such questions. And it may simply be that not enough of dead cultures remains to show us what they thought of such issues, but you know ... "That's life," that's what all the people say. You ought to open your mind to the topic, Mystech, and not rush to argue against me. I'm not nearly as important as the ideas afoot. There's more going on here than your disgust for my sense of perspective.
