Imagine

WildBlueYonder · 04-07-01, 06:59 PM

With so many people feeling that government and religion are ( take your pick ): 1) dangerous, 2) out-moded, 3) wrong &/or 4) silly, it reminded me of the old John Lennon song,"Imagine", about how life would be like without either. Just wondering how all the atheists, agnostics, Wiccans, rationalists, other Christians & etc. would respond to the following:

What system would they put in the place of the current Western Judeo-Christian legal & social system that would not offend anyone, hurt anyone in any way, but would protect, encourage, and just nourish the maximum amount of people; without brain-washing, ridicule, killing or imprisoning, but with honest, truthful dialog & learning? Just wondering.

Peace and love.

**tablariddim** · 04-08-01, 10:09 AM

The human population is too large and too diverse, for any one system to work properly. All systems, by their very nature, must cater to the lowest common denominator, therefore they are always flawed and can never be ideal for all.

But if we could create a Utopia, then I would base everything on love. What is love?
Love, is patient. Love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it, is not self-seeking. Love is not easily angered, it keeps no records of wrongs, it always forgives, it does not lie, does not steal and it does not kill. Love is perfection.. (from the New Testament)

If a society could harness the above sentiments and really put them into practice, we could have this Utopia. But we don't, because we can't, so we won't!

**Cris** · 04-09-01, 05:31 PM

I think love would be going too far.

A simpler approach is to develop tolerance for the ideas of others and enforce my signature phrase - freedom to do as we please unless the actions interfere with the freedom of others.

**tablariddim** · 04-10-01, 10:22 AM

Cris,
how would you develop this 'tolerance' as you put it, without some form of overriding ethic or moral? A ship needs an anchor! And humans also need discipline, but discipline without love can only be achieved by force or some form of religion, which doesn't sound correct or appealing.
But anyway, we're talking about a Utopia which could never exist in any way or form, so we're just pissing in the wind. Thank God for Zippo's.

**Corp.Hudson** · 04-10-01, 04:25 PM

Tribalism

WildBlueYonder · 04-18-01, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by tablariddim

But anyway, we're talking about a Utopia which could never exist in any way or form, so we're just pissing in the wind.

So, there's no way for people to get together & work out a system for living, culture, etc. that would not offend anyone? I would think that with 'modern, rational man', we could lessen the differences. I know communism claimed to be one of the answers, creating a 'new man', but as we saw at the fall of the Soviet Union & Yugoslavia, old hatreds remained right by the surface. Here in the U.S., we still have problems but I hope that at least in cyberspace we can live in harmony. Live long and prosper!

**Corp.Hudson** · 04-18-01, 09:30 PM

I repeat...this so-called "utopia" has existed for 3 million years in tribes across the world.

**tablariddim** · 04-19-01, 09:08 AM

Randolfo,
in short, no!
But waddaya mean cyberspace? I'm talking about flesh and blood humans living in the physical world.

WildBlueYonder · 04-19-01, 09:44 PM

Sorry, I didn't catch that as your answer, when you underlined it, it looked like a hyperlink that wasn't working, I clicked my mouse & it wouldn't open. And I'm not used to one-word answers, sorry.

Originally posted by Corp.Hudson
I repeat...this so-called "utopia" has existed for 3 million years in tribes across the world.

But why does tribalism only seem to work for the tribe? They come in contact with others & it's the same, fighting, stealing, killing of the 'other', "they are not like us, they are different"?

**ripleofdeath** · 04-23-01, 07:29 AM

it is truely sad to see that in this era of technology and advanced learning techniques that some people just keep the old thought of
"THE WORLD IS FUCKED... SO LETS TAKE AS MUCH AS WE CAN AS FAST AS WE CAN BEFORE IT ALL BLOWS UP"

IT SEEMS SOO OBVIOUSE THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO LIVE ALONGSIDE OTHER PEOPLE AND NOT TRY TO RIP THEM OFF AND FESTER HATE!
WHY DONT WE MERELY make a simple law-
if you go out of your way to upset someone you are placed in a re-education camp.
locking people in a cell wont make them learn or understand WE NEED TO RE-EDUCATE PEOPLE
but most people think...well i wouldnt like to have someone tell me what to do ... so
i wont vote for it
and then they buy nike shoes or pay for private health care and vote for the greed mungers.
OOHHHH WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?????????????????
*************************************
MAYBE HOLLICOST IS THE ONLY WAY
BECAUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALY BAD WILL FORM ESEALY IDENTIFIABLE GROUPS AND THEN THEY CAN BE ERRADICATED...?
IF THATS WHAT OTHERS SAY ...IS THE ONLY WAY AHEAD,
BY SAYING "we will never change"
SO PLEASE...
think ahead
think for your self
think for your friend
think for your world
THINK!

**tablariddim** · 04-23-01, 08:10 AM

Who's world d'you want to change exactly?
Do you realise that most of the world's population is still uneducated, lives in poverty and is governed by antiquated religions? Grow up will you!
You will not change the world with ill considered, half baked ideas that may only be understood by, or would only be relevant to, a tiny segment of the world's people.
I was going to say that the only philosophy which might stand a chance would be one based on unconditional love (there, I've said it now), but philosophies are like powerful cars. On a clear road, in experienced hands, they may take you to your destination quickly, safely and efficiently, but if the driver's bad or inexperienced, or if there are obstacles in the way (and there will be), you'll probably end up dead, in a multiple car pile up!

**ripleofdeath** · 04-23-01, 09:01 AM

AND WHY ARNT THEY EDUCATED?????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????
DUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
WE HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED THE STARVING.
WE HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO LIVE IN A EXTREEMLY LOW POLUTION LEVEL.
WHOS CART ARE YOU PUSHING?
HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY IF
WE GAVE ECCESS FOOD TO THE STARVING ...ALONG WITH CONTRACEPTION
and built houses instead of churches...for the home-less
PEOPLE ARE STUPID.....?

or am i in the wrong time period?
maybe ???????????????????????
THE ROAD TOLL CREATES INDUSTRY
and most people dont know how to drive a normal car(life) properly so we the enlightened as you attempt to sound need to activate change.

there ive stopped shouting now and im off to bed
i have been studying socioligy for 15 years now and some things just gain more contrast
and others morph and some complimented and some
stated in galvanising express terms.
but i have the advantage of the abillity to learn if i choose...
so i choose to help where i see the biggest need

**tablariddim** · 04-23-01, 09:49 AM

How do you help?

**ripleofdeath** · 04-23-01, 07:37 PM

define help...?please
as to be your understanding of what would help because anything i do is meaningles compared to someone who does not PERCIEVE a problem.not directing that at you as to say you are a problem...by the way.

**tablariddim** · 04-24-01, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by ripleofdeath
but i have the advantage of the abillity to learn if i choose...
so i choose to help where i see the biggest need

Your statement, so my question again,
'How do you help?'

Help: To assist, To alleviate, To contribute, To improve, To serve, To provide etc. (Vis a vis the uneducated, the starving, the inequality etc)

**ripleofdeath** · 04-24-01, 07:55 AM

the other night i read a girl and guy in a night club and told the girl to get it on with the guy
my words
"dont be afraid to go there but be honest"
i hope she got the point of the honesty thing

i also hope that i helped not hindered
might not ever know
but i tried

**ripleofdeath** · 04-24-01, 07:56 AM

the full story is longer

and im off
so later gator
keep groovin and keep inproovin

WildBlueYonder · 04-24-01, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by ripleofdeath

WE HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED THE STARVING.
WE HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO LIVE IN A EXTREEMLY LOW POLUTION LEVEL.
WHOS CART ARE YOU PUSHING?
HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY IF
WE GAVE ECCESS FOOD TO THE STARVING ...ALONG WITH CONTRACEPTION
and built houses instead of churches...for the home-less
PEOPLE ARE STUPID.....?

But how can we share, without violence or threats? What system, would help others to share? To think & live in non-polluting ways? That will remind people we are on a small little blue & white marble that is hurling through space, with what may be the only life in the universe. Which, if we are not careful, we may blow up?

**ripleofdeath** · 04-25-01, 12:05 AM

cool concept radolfo
i personaly belive we are not the only life / intellegent beings in this solar system...let-alone the universe.
you have raised the great question of all humanity

one i have been pondering since i was about 14 years old
SHITE...! and im not nessesarily any closer to the answer.

well i think it starts with the leaders/government
they are the ultimate role models.
and we need someone (like my self...

)
to be in power to make the hard decisions and thus risking my life(maybe J.F.K S' prediccament).
i belive it is the only way.
people in genral dont want to think about these issues
because they cant handle the way it makes them feel.
...in my opinion!!!
and i must admit that i am starting to form a new hypothesis... which is...
only (mostly) those who have gone through terrific hardship and abuse are able to deal with these things out in open discusion...why you ask?
well to start with through my exp mostly... and
if they cant deal with the extreem nature of emotional
and mostly psychological abuse they commit suicide and therefore they are not around...!
hows that for a thought or ... none...?

groove on all
peace ... love ... and missery to all greed merchants