In math, a vector space is composed of base vectors such that each base vector is independent of the others and some combination of base vectors defines everything in the vector space. Anything not in vector space V is inconsistent with V. In general we can say that axioms are the basis of a belief system. Examples of such systems are geometry, real numbers, rational numbers, irrational numbers, complex numbers, and fractions. Anything not in compliance with a belief system's axioms, is not consistent with it. For the Holy Bible, I challenge anyone to find its axioms which allow one to construct the morals presented in the Old and the New Testament. Are those axioms consistent with each other? If not, why not? If any axioms conflict with the others, why believe in God? GodLied.
Love your God with all your heard, mind and soul Love your neighbor as yourself. What about the axiom of choice? Ok, way too much math for me and I really hate all forms of linear algebra. We all don't live in a one dimensional space throwing out all the infinite dimensional ones. If I remember correctly, a basis can be infinite.
Okinrus, use your wit. Learn your Holy Bible. Take notes on the independent ideas which construct the complex ideas. Those ideas used to formulate complex ideas are the basis of the Holy Bible. All such elementary elements for good are considered good and their opposites should therefore promote evil. Compare all your list of elementary elements and make sure that those used to construct complex ideas do not conflict: conflict suggests inconsistency in God's Word. Omit all inconsistent sections. The leftovers becomes your consistent word of God. The inconsistent sections constitute God's inconsistencies with himself. Such inconsistencies in any Book of the Holy Bible would suggest that Book is the word of Satan, the opposite of God. Now consider the size of your Holy Bible. Does God still exist? No. This might have been part of the reason why Xians killed Hypatia of Alexandria. GodLied.
holy cow... Interesting plot here, but I have to agree with a previous poster who mentioned something about multi-dimensional space. We can't use such limited tools as three-dimensional math to try and explain why the universe is infinite. One cannot use finite tools to prove the infinite nature of anything. This is exactly what Christians mean when they say that God bestows grace, which in turn allows them to have faith in Him. Your argument, that in order for something to belong in a certain universe, it must reflect certain properties (axioms), is fundamentally flawed. One cannot examine every property at the same time (uncertainty). The bible is simply a record of time as it related to the Jews and Christians, and it had many, many writers. Inside this record of time is contained the Word of God. If you are saying that the Bible is inconsistant with either this universe or with what it attempts to portray (the laws of God), then I challange you to prove your point using an infinite argument. All you need to do is start thinking of infinite ideas, and you may be granted some grace, which will then help you to think about infinite ideas a little more clearly. GL, why do you use the term "Xian"? How should I pronounce it when reading your posts? Grammatically, should it always be capitalized? Does this term, when used properly, add to the rhetorical value of an anti-theist argument? Sabreteeth
"Xian" means "Christian" Originally posted by sabreteeth ---------- holy cow...GL, why do you use the term "Xian"? How should I pronounce it when reading your posts? Grammatically, should it always be capitalized? Does this term, when used properly, add to the rhetorical value of an anti-theist argument? ---------- sabreteeth, although you addressed your questions to GL, I wanted to jump in here an answer you. I may have been one of the first members to coin the word "Xian." Surprisingly, the term has become used frequently. It simply is another way to spell and denote "Christian." It is still pronounced "krish-tun." Yes, even though it is a less well-known abbreviation, it still should be capitalized as it is a proper noun. The term "Xian" or "Xianity" is simply an abbreviation. It is not intended to discredit or defame the religion nor is it widely used in the anti-theist argument. The "X" is an accepted symbol for Christ widely used by the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). It is called St. Andrew's cross. Most Xian's think that the one true Crucifix (Xifix) was similar to the "T," but this is actually incorrect. The original Xifix was in the form of an "X." It as most properly used for the upside down xifixion as done to Peter in Rome. It is taken from the word "xienthes" (please excuse my spelling, here) which means "fish." Jesus ("X") was called the "fisher of men." This term is not in any way derogatory, although many "Christians" take offense to it.
Values construct morals. Morals construct actions. Values are more important than morals. Script the ethical code of the Holy Bible. Put good behavior on one list and bad behavior on another. The opposite of good should be bad and vise versa. Those behaviors are sorted by certain distinct fundamental values. Construct the list for each Book and each Testament. Any Book whose good behavior conflicts with the elements of the good list can be considered the book of Satan. Omit that entire Book from your Holy Bible. Furthermore, any Book that contradicts itslef contains fallacious material which can only be the act of the ultimate sinner, Satan; so, omit those Books from your Holy Bible. Now, by elimination, how big is your consisten Holy Bible? Without Genesis, what is your new theory of everything? People use Xian to refer to Christian and X-mas to refer to Christmas. Depending on how much you want to type, spelling is your choice. As long as I have been alive, X is a substitute for Christ in religious terminology. According to MedicineWoman, Catholics use it. That is probably where I got it from; however, pagans often use X in place of Christ in religious terms starting with Christ. JMG.
GodLied, the Bible is the code. Through it we form ideas about such things as "holiness", "sacrifice", "atonement" and "sin". There are no common denominators except the ones okinrus mentioned: love for God and each other. If history was scientific, or people acted and experienced evrything scientifically, your proposed method might be useful, but it isn't. It isn't practical at all. To demonstrate this, try applying you criteria to a person: script his ethical code, take everything he did and measure it against what he considered "good" or "bad". Now list that persons values accordingly. Any "good" action that contradicts a "bad" action should be considered untrustworthy and scrapped along with its context. Now, by elimination, how valid was that person's life? Without his birth, did he exist? (after all, not existing one moment and existing the next is a contradiction). And his death contradicts the claim that he was ever alive. The Bible is a history of a people's relationship with God, and how He steered them where they were supposed to go. You will get all the variety of life in it, but the same God - like a wheel with a hub. The spokes at one end of the wheel do not contradict or invalidate the spokes on the other end.
This is a childishly naive statement from someone who has shown remarkable ignorance when it comes to the Tanach.
Which will always be the case when you try to simplify it. That was my point, but any collection of historical narratives do constitute a history, so I wasn't being "ignorant". By the way, what kind of ignorance do you have in mind? What do you think about the Tanach?
