Is there any Eschatology in the Qur'an? I am not honed in on many beliefs of the Muslim Religion as I am a Christian, but I am indeed curious about what it talks about in the Qur'an about the end times. Does it even talk about the end times? I am guessing they do not believe in the 2nd coming of Christ, because that is more of a Christian belief. Somebody please highlight soome key points for me if you know. P.S. This isn't a discussion about if the Qur'an is inspired or if the Bible is inspired, more of a personal comparison/contrast between Christianity and Muslim.
The only thing in the Quran that is found relevant to the idea of christ coming back is in the following verses. [4.153] The followers of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from heaven; so indeed they demanded of Musa a greater thing than that, for they said: Show us Allah manifestly; so the lightning overtook them on account of their injustice. Then they took the calf (for a god), after clear signs had come to them, but We pardoned this; and We gave to Musa clear authority. [4.154] And We lifted the mountain (Sainai) over them at (the li taking of the covenant) and We said to them: Enter the door making obeisance; and We said to them: Do not exceed the limits of the Sabbath, and We made with them a firm covenant. [4.155] Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few. [4.156] And for their unbelief and for their having uttered against Marium a grievous calumny. [4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. [4.158] Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. [4.159] And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them. In summary: 1- The jews rebelled terribly 2- The jews attacked christ and his message 3- The jews made up the story about christ death 4- Christ didn't die, he was raised directly to god. He is with god right now. 5- All those that wronged Jesus from believing in his crucifiction to making him a god will have to believe in Jesus's rightfull story before he dies, because we are told that Jesus is alive and one day he will die. That day have not happened. 6- Jesus will act as witness on judgement day againest those who wronged him. As you notice from above. The jews seem to have been very argumentive from god. They didn't even accept Moses commandments on the notion that they want to see a book drop from the sky before their very own eyes. Because of such rebeltion, we were told that god cursed the jews except for a few that will make an effort to understand to ignorance. The jews later mocked the messiah Isa or Jesus. They even spoke of crucifying him, but we were told in the Quran, that god raised Jesus directly and that he didn't bleed to death by the jews. God promises those that abused christ and argued with god that one day they will be made to believe in this truth and that this day will before Christ death. So the muslims are told that Christ didn't die. We don't where he is at, but we know he didn't die and that he will act as wittness againest those that abused his word for god. We believe as submitters to god and believers in Jesus Christ as a noble apostle to god that Jesus will not hold any negative wittness againest us since we took no part in killing/defaming/ or wronging him.
Flores, That is interesting, I didn't know that you believed that Jesus wasn't ever killed, but was taken away without death. My only thought is this: I know God can do anything, but if Jesus were just a man and a prophet and not the son of God as Muslim religion would indicate, then how did he escape death. I don't know if the Qur'an says this or not, but I know it says in Genesis, From dust you were created and dust you will return... I am just curious why he would have any different outcome if he were just a man. Dust to Dust. I think from previous correspondence that Muslim Religion believes in the Rebellion of Satan, The Accuser. Am I correct in assuming this? At the end, what happens to Satan? Is he already banned to a hades type place, or does he still roam the earth in a outer dimensional realm? Does the Qur'an speak of God created a new heavens and a new earth? Also, after death, do muslim's believe that they will have the same body as on earth or will they have a new body. Will it just be a super conscience state?
well, I find any positive disucssion between a christian and a muslim interesting. Afterall, if we bypass the secular ideas, we are the same and one under one god subject to the same rule. The Quran clearly says that he was not killed and that he was rasied directly to god. But we are told that he'll die in the future....So go figure. As you said it rightly, god can do as he wish, and we are clearly told that he is a prophet and that he is NOT a son. Also, he didn't escape death. The date of his death has only been posponed by god command. Remember that along with from dust to dust is god says "be and it is". We can't apply any set of rules to god. God owns the rules and he creates as he wishes, take us back when he wishes and do with us as he wishes. He is most just, compassionate, and mercifull, so we must trust in his authority and rule and never question his plan. Yes, we believe that Satan rebelled when Adam was created. We are told in the Quran that Satan along with the angels was ordered to bow to man to acknowledge that man is created as second in command to god. Satan got mad and said he wouldn't bow because how can mud be better than fire. But what Satan failed to see was that mud is only our lowly form and we are destined for a much higher purpose to be right beneath god. Satan was ordered to hell, but he asked god for a respite or a waiting period, to which he was granted. His abode is fire and he is determined to take as many people as possible with him to show god that men are not better than him after all. It's not really clear. Sometimes I feel that earth will be our paradise, then later I get the feeling that heaven is a distant place. i'm not sure and the Quran is not clear about this. We don't really know much about that. We are told that we will be in a state of felicity surrounded by everything beautifull and pure parteners, ect... I doubt we will have or even remember any of our old lives. All we know that heaven is such a great reward and hell is horrible, not much detail is given. It seems to be a born again experience and I doubt that we will remember any of our old lives to compare our status with.
Flores So satan was created with fire and adam was created with dust. Satan was then cast into fire and adam returns to dust. Angels= Fire to Fire Man= Dust to Dust Correct? Well not all angels obviously I would feel like life was so pointless if we didn't remember it. Especially if it was a test. Wouldn't we want to remember the test and the mercy and grace during the test in the afterlife. What do you believe about mans purpose on earth? Do you believe God ordains the steps of the believers? I know as a christian, we believe that God wanted to show us an aspect of himself through salvation. He created us to show or reveal himself to us. I would think that we would remember the revelation of God that we had in this life, although, I do not think the Bible addresses this either. I just wonder if Heaven is a place much like earth where we still learn and gain knowledge and understanding as we would still be finite beings. I think heaven is much like earth because as a christian I believe that God created man in his own image and likeness, but I also think that God created earth in the image and likeness of heaven. So if Jesus is not dead and he is not here on earth then how old would be be when he returns back? Obviously, if he is still on this earth then he is not a man restricted by nature and if he is in heaven, then how could a mans naturalistic body last in an eternal place, unless it speaks of a naturalistic heaven. When he returns then, will he return in the clouds, or will he return all of a sudden? Just curious as to his appearance later. Is Muhammad coming back as well?
Originally posted by Quigly ---------- I am guessing they do not believe in the 2nd coming of Christ, because that is more of a Christian belief. ---------- (Why would anyone want to believe what the self-inflicted misinformed want to believe?)
Well if you read the post, obviously Muslims believe in it to some extent also. Christians believe in it as well. As far as I am aware these are the 2 largest religions in the world. Please correct me if I am wrong. ...self-inflicted misinformed ... As far as your biased opinions and obvious prejudice, leave your callowed opinions to yourself. If you come without a segregationist attitude then that would be great. Rather then call people self-inflicted misinformed, you would be better to say, well why do so many believe this. Why don't I believe this. and then realize, well I can accept what they believe to some extent even though I don't.
I doubt you'll want to continue the discussion after this: If and I'm not even half sure that Jesus will return, but if he indeed returns, the Quran clearly tells me that he is only returning to correct those that gave him the biggest slap in the face of history by believing him as a god while he was preaching them about his god. Jesus is not relevant to my life, he's so crucial to yours though, because you need him to come back and correct you....I can't correct you, noone else can....You will only believe jesus himself, but I'm afraid it will too late for your salvation, and the information you'll recieve will be what sends you mentally to eternal hell fire.....Read your bible carefully: Matt 7: [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. How would it feel Quigly to build your life around Jesus and place all your hopes in him and finally be told to depart from him because you didn't place god first. That' eternal mental hell, if I can imagine anything. Muhammed is not coming back. Muhammed is done, he delivered his message properly and noone believes him to be a god or anthing more than a human. Muhammed is resting with god and his mission is eternally accomplished. He will not act as a wittness againest anyone as Jesus will be doing.
Why would I want to stop this conversation unless it grows tiresome to you, then I will cease to post here, otherwise I would like to respond. Christianity does not believe Jesus is coming back to correct us. For he already made a way for us to be corrected on earth. Jesus would be coming back to rule and reign. Mathew 7:21-23 I would like to explain the verse to you and please keep in mind that I study the bible and know about it as you study the qur'an and know about it. Here is what the verse is talking about. The verses speak about people that want to partake in annointing, but do not want to have a relationship with him. Unlike the muslim religion, if I am correct, we believe that we can have a Relationship with God the Father and Christ the Son and the Holy spirit. God can use a donkey to relay his messages, but that doesn't mean the donkey is going to go to heaven. The last verse translates to this in the greek. 23] And then will I profess unto them, I was never intimate with you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (the word intimate also can be translated loved) 23] And then will I profess unto them, I never loved you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity I know you think that I am going to hell, but that is ok Flores, you still at least have good discussion. I do not hold it against you as this is what you believe and I guess according to what you believe, I must be in error and be condemned to damnation for believing, but according to what I believe it is the other way around. I am just trying to understand the Qur'an a little bit and everything.
Jesus tried to tell the truth, but no one believed him. Originally posted by Quigly 23] And then will I profess unto them, I was never intimate with you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (the word intimate also can be translated loved) ---------- (Jesus preached the worship of God (the "Father") and not the worship of himself as God. In this scripture, Jesus was saying just that. 'I never knew you/loved you/was intimate with you/created you, get away from me, you are a liar(iniquity). ---------- (Why is it you Xians twist Bible scripture to make Jesus out to be God? Xianity is the Anti-X!)
Quigly, you really should not direct such ignorant comments to Medecine woman. MW have been able to extract all respect from me because she is a person that reasons and is true to herself. MW is white, born and raised christian, and is not a member of any cult. She believes in the oneness of god, the creator and connector of all souls, and she believes in personal quests, achievements, judgements, and responsbility. To me, MW has perfectly followed the concepts of Islam without being a muslim. She has realized as our Quran says THAT EVERYTHING WE NEED LIES WITHIN OURSELVES. We need not seek our salvation from ourside but from within. True happiness can not be begotten but found within ourselves, and so is salvation. Our soul is a record of all our doings and will act as judges againest ourselves. She knows that it's us that earn our endings and it's our own souls that will eventually will be in eternal bliss or torment. A person that believes that way is in my view is extremely accountable, souls of these people are described as self approaching and self correcting. One day these self approaching souls would attain the bliss of peace because their records are straight and their checks are balanced. Other lazy souls that relied on lies would torment as they realize their ignorance and inability to deal with the afterlife...this is the fire torment, not the physical fire, but the internal soul fire. Hats off to MW.....
