Skeptics please help.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by moementum7, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    I would really like to belive in not U.F.O.'S.

    Can somebody please prove to me that life on other planets doesn't exist.
    Or that technology will never be able to advance to that of light speed or faster.
    Can somebody please prove to me that our government has never lied or will never lie, and that they can be whole heartedly trusted ,and that they honestly do have our best interests at heart.

    Any of these proven to be true would be surely appreciated.
    Please,no long philosophical details,just the cold hard facts.
    I can take it.
    Thanks in advance.
     
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  3. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Nope, can't be proven.

    Nope, can't be proven.

    Nope, can't proven. I could prove that the government (or part of it) has lied in the past. One cannot prove that the will or will not in the future.

    Can somebody prove that there is a causation to every correlation? (did you known that nearly every person who has ever been to jail eats bread?)

    Not likely.

    The beauty of science is even the most proven theories are only true until proven to be untrue. But at least they are tested, retested and provide predictable results.

    UFOs offer no hypotheses that can be tested and none that can predict results... beyond the fact that someone will believe in them without hard evidence!
     
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  5. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

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    Well,so much for an easy way out.
    However,
    Thats a good question,what would you consider to be hard evidence in this here U.F.O. phenomena?
     
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  7. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    An artifact. A body. A photograph from inside a ufo. A photograph that was properly exposed and focused just 5 feet away from a ufo or such that the ufo filled the frame. A press release from a ufo's pilot/occupant.

    But primarily anything I can pick up, touch and fondle. Of all the alleged "abductees," you would think one would be a thief!

    Also.... a free ride would be convincing. But then I'd have the burden of convincing everyone else... me and my sticky fingers.
     
  8. slim Texican Registered Senior Member

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    410
    lol... SkinWalker.. Good Points achieved.. I suspect any alien worth a grain of salt would have an X-ray scanner handy, depending also if you are allowed to keep your clothes. I suspect that the intierior of a UFO is not like the family station wagon. No tennis rackets, shoes, or any loose articles laying about. The way they can immediately achieve an unknown top speed and stop just as fast, would most likely require more than a seatbelt and cargo net to hold the ass in position, not to mention an inkpen would possibly impale itself past the cap.

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  9. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    10,342
    Why is it that the 'government' (quoted singular, while there are many around the planet) have the ability to quosh all evidence of UFO activity?

    Surely, if UFOs were aliens, and they spent a lot of time and effort coming here, and they wanted us to know of their existance, no single body could prevent that, it would take a massive co-ordinated effort amongst all world governments. And as they can't agree on the basics, like Kyoto, what chance is that they would cover each other on this?

    So we're left with the highly unlikely scenario that aliens like to conspire with the US govt, and the aliens can easily overlook the rampant consumerism, pollution, and barbaric death penalty still in place in the US.

    I'd like to think they'd be above that, and would have quite some disdain for the way things work currently.
     
  10. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    835
    Let me put it this way: Assuming an alien culture has the technology and opportunity to visit Earth, then they would either want to stay undetected, or they would want to contact us.

    In the first case, given their vastly advanced technology, they would most likely succeed, and we would have no observations.

    In the latter case, they would make sure that this contact was efficient. Why would they want to conspire with our corrupt governments?

    Hans
     
  11. Xaque Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    Nobody can prove that UFO's don't exist. But people can give you very strong evidence. For example faster than light travel itself is most likely mathematically impossible. All the top scientists around the world agree on this. However, there are theoretical ways around it, such as wormholes. But if there were a big old wormhole hanging around the solar system, you'd think someone would have noticed it by now.

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    So unless there's a wormhole just a few lightyears away, (Alpha Centauri for example), and the aliens decided just to fly the rest of the way, then it's fairly unlikely.
     
  12. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Thanks guys,I was more entertaining myself with this thread.
    I knew none of the suggestions I made could be proven.
    I absolutely believe in other life and that they are here now.
    And I'm willing to bet anybody $10.00 that has currently posted on this thread that the truth will become worldwide by the end of this decade.I mean it.
    clintmoe@hotmail.com
    E-mail me in the next 7 years and I will pay you if I am wrong.

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    If I'm wrong,I'm out 30.00 bucks.
    If I'm right,the events will probly lead me to forget about this little bet.
    Peace Out
     
  13. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    835
    Hans
     
  14. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

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    1,598
    I bet thet your probly less fun to be around than a bag of potatoes.

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    Who's in?
     
  15. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    24,066
    I'll make it really interesting...i will throw in a spuriousmonkey t-shirt in this wager...
     
  16. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    835
    For you, I'll be.

    Hans
     
  17. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry Hans,I just realized that you were one of the first people that responded to my thread.
    The points I mentioned were so obvious to me that I didn't think anybody would take to seriously offering help to this.
    Sorry for wasting your time.
    I realize now why there was a sense of disregard in your previous post.
    Sorry about that.
    I digress.

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  18. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    No worries, mate!

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    Hans
     
  19. slim Texican Registered Senior Member

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    410
    Well, UFO's come and Go all the time, and people who are open about their existance look at them with awe and simply keep it to themselves. Our Govenments worldwide know a lot more than they tell, which I suppose after the War Of the Worlds Scare back in the late thirties, they may have had good Reasons then, with all the mass hysteria and meyhem that created, they'ed be reluctant to say anything nowdays. Anyone who denies their existance is simply playing with their own minds. Trying to explain that wormholes, UFOs and the technolgy Doesn'r exist is such a Human Fallicy that it is no wonder The Aliens would remain Anonomous. How could an Earthling know without seeing? the Scientists use pure speculation to guess what is out there and NASA Discounts all the activity they encounter. What intellegent Race would want to contact our savage race? Select people see them often enough that there is no question they are out there. people with tunnel vision use petty arguments to sidestep the obvious. they are simply afraid of the unknown and most likely never venture out after dark when many UFO's are seen, or into the Countryside in the Daytime when they Hover over very Rural areas.. Many people I know have seen them, but telling the skeptics is not productive at all. It seems to be the wish of the ignorant to remain so, and theres nothing short of an Alien in their living room with a UFO parked out by the Honda Civc that will change that. the Visitors have apparently found that trying to contact a race that tries to blow them out of the sky, or Capture them like animals is not ready for them yet. I don't blame them at all! If someone said I didn't exist and denied me that right, I'd ignore them too! No Problemo.. All I can say is WHY? What do you Fear? Why?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2003
  20. Xevious Truth Beyond Logic Registered Senior Member

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    964
    THe crux of the issue is that science cannot yet give us a satisfactory answer to the UFO problem. One can use the methods of science and come to completely differnt conclusions from the next guy with reguards to UFO's. It becomes not a question of what can be proven, but what one chooses to accept as valid. As a way of example, one person who takes every undisproven eyewitness acount at face value, every anomolous and unexplained photograph at face value, psychiatry reports from abductees, and if one accepts them all as valid then one can come to the conclusion that there is something downright strange and currently unexplainable is going on. However, when another person considered the number and frequency of hoaxes and the possible alternetive explanations for many of the unknowns into account, they find it far more believeable that perfectly natural things are occuring and it is only that not all the "facts" are in evidence which support their conclusion.

    There are in the end only two possibilities to the above mentioned issue. Either there is truth to both explanations, or only one is correct. At the present time, science has not granted a decisive advantage to either side. If it had, UFO's would have disappeared long ago from the public mind just as many other phenomenon, superstitions, and legends do. To me, this alone shows that there is something to the phenomenon. Sure not everyone on the planet is bright, but overall the human species isn't stupid.
     
  21. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Skeptics please help.

    Augghhhh!! Run!! Liberals from Space!!!

    Making an assumption that aliens know about earth and have visited:

    Seriously, I'd think that any aliens that would come would probably want to take a hands-off approach to the whole thing. Something like how we would have liked to have dealt with primitive cultures in the 18th centuries. Somehow integrate with them and learn what they're all about. Anyone who flies half way across the galaxy is likely to be interested in learning things about the universe, right?

    I'd be suprised to find out that there was any complicity with aliens and the government itself. Likely if there are cover ups, then it's probably involved in a plan to take said equipment for the use of the government, or to keep people "from panicing".
     
  22. Xevious Truth Beyond Logic Registered Senior Member

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    964
    They don't. Amoung developed countries, you will find a very good exception in Belgium. Indeed, the Belgian Air Force has released radar tapes of UFO's which there F-16 fighters had attempted to intercept. The Belgian military has even set aside an aircraft specifically for tracking and intercepting UFO's. Most of this I saw on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries (I have the episode on VHS), but have found it mentioned onlien as well. It should be mentioned that most Belgian websites on the phenomenon are written in their local language. However, several books and websites about UFO's do mention the openness of the Belgian Military on the subject.

    I wonder why however, the information seems hard to come by here in the US.
     
  23. Ertai Registered Senior Member

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    I believe there are some documented UFO Radar Information..

    But Their UFO not Spaceship with Aliens..

    UFO is UFO, Unindentified Flying Object...

    There are testimonies, a lot... military pilotes, etc...

    UFOs are REAL no question about it

    Grays, Spaceships, Conspiracy Theories, etc... These are still unproven, but may or may not exist..

    What science could do is start to gather hard data of these phenomena and get a hold of the true facts about this kind of stuff
     

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