The cosmic conspiracy

This is more something for theists to think about. Atheists will just get frustrated with its outlandish absurdity and lack of scientific evidence. But if you do somehow manage to give it serious consideration you'll find its rather consistent. Probably just a coincidence, but its all in good fun.

Theists, your god is without a doubt a higher entity than us, right? Clearly he runs rings around us in the brains department.
If he's so smart, why would it be beyond his capabilities to trick measly humans? Of course it wouldn't, keep that in mind.
I think he's lying.

I think, as science is suggesting, the earth naturally occurred and life on earth was made by the sun and the earth's teamwork.
It was running smoothly and a new potentially great species had just evolved. Humans.
They were living it up and acting like any good species should when something strange happened. Man was given commandments. These were quite bizarre commandments. We see them as normal because our society was built on them. But when compared to the laws all other animals follow and what humans followed before these commandments, they are quite strange indeed.

Killing was expected back in the day, stealing was done by all, if one clan of humans has a nice buffaloe carcass your clan would run over and take it using force, maybe killing them if they put up a fight. And you wouldn't have felt guilty about that in the slightest. You covetted thy neighbours wife whenever you could, you certainly didn't love thy neighbour, you quarrelled with neighbours and kept them at a distance, trying to kill them whenever they got too close.
This is natural, its how pack predators live, humans were pack predators.

Nothing changed in us biologically. But something convinced us to live differently. It was these commandments, but where did they come from?
Thats whats missing in the puzzle, but lets gather what we do know and try to piece it together.

Humans are much happier thanks to these commandments, agreed? These commandments taught us to help eachother and share ideas, two heads are better than one they say, obviously 6 billion are better than 2.
Thanks to these commandments we are living comfortably and advancing at an amazing rate, we no longer chase away strangers, we meet them and exchange ideas, making both parties more knowledgable in the process.
There is no doubt, that as far as humans are concerned, the ten commandments were a "godsend"(hehe)

But if you want a dog to eat babies, you reward it for doing so, its not thinking about the baby, its thinking about the snack 'em, or whatever. Chewing the baby is the hurdle to the snack 'em.
Human beings are being rewarded with comfort and happiness, but what are they actually doing?
If you look at the earth from the outside, homo-sapiens are spreading around it and altering its landscape, killing off its other species and befouling it with pollution. It has to be agreed that you can't argue with that. This IS happening, that fact can not be argued, whether you see it as a negative, a positive or a "no big deal" we all know this what humans are doing.

I thought the only entities with planetary destruction as their top priority were the villains on that planeteers cartoon. But it turns out whoever designed the 10 commandments is also working towards this strange goal.
Is god's arch rival captain planet? Is captain planet satan?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Who is god? I doubt he is a ratlike man with a red hood, so who is he?
He didn't make earth, he merely interfered with it and tricked a species into doing his bidding by rewarding them with the comfort all species pine after.
He turned us against the earth, and thus the earth against us(it is trying to be rid of us, HIV, sars, etc are all examples of earth trying to fight back)
What could he possibly want from this?
Could "god" be an alien race that specialises in population mind control tactics?
I'm really at a loss, but I know what I see and I know somethings up.

There are so many indications that point to foul play. The bible is the conspiracy, of course you believe in it, you were supposed to, those that don't believe in it litterally believe in it enough for the plan to continue. You are loving thy neighbours which is all that matters.

Perhaps it is a good thing, its hard to argue that life today is alot easier and alot more fun than chasing families off buffaloe carcasses. But I'm still pissed, because we've been tricked. Tricked into being happier but tricked none the less.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

The first set of laws were the pre-biblical laws of Hammurabi's Code. Created by the Sumerian king Hammurabi, these laws codified what was probably already standard practices including, but not limited to a ban on robbery and stealing the son of another. Not only that, but there are laws for debt including what to do if a renter's crops are destroyed and he is unable to pay his debt.

These codes establish rules for humanity to live by with the goal of making a safer world.

You say humans are much happier thanks to commandments condemning killing and stealing and I agree. I also agree that your little scenario can kind of make sense in a way, but I guess you would have to believe that Hammurabi's Code was divinely inspired. I guess he claims it is anyways so who knows.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

lou, get a life

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Sorry.
I'll try to not to stray from the 4 threads that get repetitively recycled on this forum ever again. What was I thinking? Lets get back on track;
So, like, if gods so good, why does he do bad stuff to good people? Thats totally weak dude

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

If you see a problem firingseed, point it out, spot the flaws in my assertions if they're so clearly wack.
If this topic is so beneath you you could atleast point out why.
And no I won't get a life

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

MOTHER!

Spoilsport,
Hammurabi eh?
So he's the dirty culprit with the good intentions.
I still think he was divinely inspired by some scheming bad guy(s).

 

god has allowed the development of mankind. be thankful. salvation is still in the name of jesus, whose grace is beyond compare. this fleshly life is just the tip of the iceberg, and there are many spiritual domains- hence jesus- our lord and saviour. only god is good.

 

lou

brain upon brain, brain upon brain- how else could a created being develop. tho the spirit of man and beast need no creative development, it is upon the spirit that natural evolution takes place. and consider the spirit, or soul, as the skeleton of the mind.
well, at least ya got my brain ticking...
tick, tock, tic...

 

so here is where the porblem arises, and understand that i am not agreeing or disagreeing witht the notion of a god or how active or inactive he/she/it is.
tribal peoples did not kill for pleasure, they killed to eat. one fought to make clear that one could fight and then fought no more. fighting was a prep to avoid a real war, so to suggest that it was chaos in terms of laws is untrue.
next, to say that life is easier now with these codes is also faulty, as the average span of a working day for tribal peoples was 1-3 hours, as opposed to our eight.
and coveting the neighbor's wife, you will find through numerous cave drawing was handled in what is perhaps a more pragmatic system than the "it is wrong" system of the bible, but it is a system nonetheless and was highly frowned upon. the process generally involved a dual between the men and the woman went with the winner.
but let's leave all that aside, if you are saying that we naturally evolved (as seems to bet he presupposition for this thread), then is not our population and spreading a natural process in evolution, even if it means the end of us, it must be the natural evovling process if we are agreed that a natrual process is what governs us, correct?
it is also of due note that loving your neighbor was not a law, it was a given. you lived breathed and died for you family, your tirbe, your neighbor. now other tribes were a different issue, but that was mostly self-preservation when you understand how the processes really developed.
the birth of right and wrong is not the birth of laws or commandments, but rather the birth of cognitive thought. to say that the brith of morality is the birth of written out laws or codes of any kind is like saying that sickness didn't exist until medical texts came along. it is in a person or people as to what is the socially acceptable terms of existence. (it can be argued as to nature or nurture but that really isn't the point here either.)
now, doctor, i'm assuming (dr.) it's just your nickname, because not to be unkind, but your statements don't reflect any real study in any sort of area at all, but it does show one thing, that you are pondering which is necessary for any real growth. thanks for sharing your theory though.

 

Good points Dr Lou!

I don't think the commandments do encourage planetary destruction, rather they don't guard against it. Yes this points towards the commandments' use being for the benefit of humanity and it's progress, however maybe the fact that there are ten is significant. Again this could have been created by humanity, i.e. we have ten fingers and ten toes, thus ten commandments came forth, but there are also ten planets, or bodies, in our solar system. Do you not find this significant? Also why is it that there are animals on this planet that naturally have no limbs (snakes), none with only two limbs, and none with three limbs either. There are animals with four limbs (many of them), none with five, some with six, none with seven, some with eight, and then centipedes (cent- i- paedes; paedal meaning legs, thus paedastal, meaning a stand) and millipaedes. I think there are things to be found here, but you make some very valid points.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

I wonder if this is really true; can you imagine what alternatives there could have been?

 

hey! dr lou's growing up.

 

lol, i won't lash out but i will object.

sorry lou but this just isn't so. back in the day when we existed like this, written langauge wasn't even heard of, cave paintings maybe, but i'm quite sure they didn't call them cave paintings either. rather a romantic view of what might have happened, but your time period is completely wrong. besides- compassion and caring has been exhibited all through-out our ancestors history. parents loved children, children loved friends, there was loyalty and there was sharing, yes there was most definately general caring. it may have been a cut throat world, but today's world is just as cut throat. in a slightly different way mind you.

sorry boss, it might have been revultion at socities lawlessness, but again, you've got humans pegged incorrectly and in a different time period. socitey has only evolved through laws, perhaps it was realised that rules were required.

 

Oh I'm sure I have the time periods wrong.
I'm just stirring up the question of "what happened?"
The fact is, homo-sapiens were living as social predators do for a long time, no surpises there, what is surprising but what has become accepted was our transition to loving our neighbours and cooperating with strangers to spark civilisation.
Its just odd, it doesn't seem odd to us, but it is. Lions think its odd, hyenas think its odd and chimpanzees think its odd.
They think its odd because they can't stand their competition, and deep down we can't either. Something convinced us to act against our instincts, but what? If it wasn't the actual 10 commandments then it was something else but it happened.
I walk down the street and see bald apes staring at me and eachother, they size eachother up, if they feel they are physically superior they stare and look threatening, inferior and they cower and look away. You know why? We all want to kill eachother, or more accurately we all feel the urge to kill eachother. Its what we were designed to do.
Any animal behaviouralist or accomplished psychologist will tell you this. The politics of homo-sapien pack life is similar to that of canines. Thats why dogs joined the clans of ancient humans, it was a very easy transition. We are a little different and have no doubt confused some dogs over the years but our clan life was close enough to pass.
Sure dogs make friends, and we naturally do too, I'm not saying we were simple killing machines. But the first thing we would do when we saw a stranger was attack them or cower from them. If the attacker was in a good mood he would spare the cowerer and then the cowerer would essentially become his ass kisser. Today we call it friendship.
But today we are expected to automatically be friends with everyone, even before we kick their ass. You'll find groups of males will compensate by playfully wrassling later on. You think you wrestle your friends for fun but in reality you are displaying your primitive instincts to decipher order in your knew clan.
Anyway, every animal behaviouralist knows this but I've never heard of anyone noticing what this means historically.
Untill now, and untill me

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

It means we have been tampered with by an unnatural source. This must have occurred before any form of society or civilisation because society and civilisation was the unnatural product of this tampering. Clans of homo-sapiens simply don't naturally join forces and live together happily, its not in their instincts, but they did for some reason.
I assumed the 10 commandments were behind this, because they do tell people to do these unnatural things. But you are right, apparently when moses unleashed his commandments people were already civilised to a certain extent(he wouldn't have been able to tell everyone if they weren't) so they must have started obeying something like them before that.
Either way it is strange. People wouldn't just realise this lifestyle would be easier, they are just people, lions don't just decide it would be easier to eat grass do they?

 

it could've just been brain development. i dunno, but i don't think animals are not friends as much as they are obviously less defined between themselves as we are. more they're"apls". look at chimps, obviously they have to get there alpha male shite out the way before they becomes pals, but there is examples of culture, passed down by what can only be a caring mother- especially if she has taken the time to teach her offspring. i studied a little bit of cultural revolution, it doesn't go as far back as you're contemplating, but it was as interesting as human evolution, if not more so.

factor in the time that it has taken us to get where we are, and it might just have been the next natural step. and i wouldn't attribute the ten commandments to anything thing great, we suffered through about two thousand years of dark ages after christ was born, to eventually get to where the great civilisations were before us, now. (rome and egypt etc. don't forget china that plodded along nicely for 3000 with no intervention from "outside")

 

much of what we have is learned behaviour...conventions and soforth. grant absolute power and the real spirit will emerge

 

even road laws conform and train us. road laws play a big part in society evolvement and adjustment. do this...don't do that etc.

 

an interesting theory of this change taking place and it's cause can be found in the daniel quinn books "ishmael" and "the story of b". not to say i necesarily always agree with them, but there are some interesting ideas. and based on your views, lou, i think you would find them quite interesting.

and based ont he fact that you said you didn't know of anyone who had contemplated this, here is an example of someone who has taken it to the furthest dark corners and come up with a solution that makes ssense, and works, which is the basis for anything worth doing.

 

yeah, the one that is called "corruption", as shown by many historical figures, religious and not-quite-so-religious.

road laws are there to stop us killing ourselves. that is a silly comparison. or maybe not, society is not society without it's rules. however, road rules are there for obviously expicit reasons. they don't teach us not to do things, they teach us how to do things co-operatively.

 

But why are we being stopped from killing ourselves?
That seems like a strange question but it really isn't when you consider what we know of life on earth. It is natural that we consider our own lives precious, this is what keeps all animals alive. And it is natural for social animals to consider the lives of those in their pack as precious, they have evolved to the point where they found cooperation beneficial.

I guess an animal COULD evolve to the point where it values the lives of every single member of its species, but we know humans didn't evolve that far because there are still murderers and in reality nobody is overly concerned about the lives of everyone. Some people might think they are but they would still value their own babies life over the life of a strange old man.

If we had litterally evolved to be the way we are we would be like a tight knit global ant colony, but we aren't, we aren't even close to that kind of order.
Yet we do like to try to act like one despite our regular old fashioned pack instincts.
Why is that?

This really is a mystery. Its seems normal to us because its all we know but natural history tells us otherwise.
There is less order to human behaviour than any other animal. The fact we need to be told how to act is a big red flag. We are acting in a fake way we aren't supposed to that appears to have been designed by something not human. I'm not saying aliens stuck stop signs in the road but something convinced us to act against our instincts a long time ago.

It was a religion of some kind, religion lays down rules that if we obey we will be rewarded with an afterlife and if we disobey will be punished.
I use to think man made up religion but now I think thats not realistic. Man had no reason to stop acting like man. It would be very bizarre if after hundreds of thousands of years a species suddenly decided to act completely differently than how it was hardwired to act.

I know animals well enough to know that doesn't happen. And I know people well enough to know they are still very much animals by nature.

The bible goes to great lengths to cloud this bizarre occurence, and it worked on early impressionable humans quite well. It tickled their egos but also scared them into conformity, all while reassuring them their lives had purpose and giving them a sense of hope. Humans got scammed hook line and sinker.
This wasn't of human creation, it was far beyond humans it was tricking humans.
Ironically, it tricked us into cooperating and advancing which inevitably lead us into understanding the world and thus noticing the falsity and suspiciousness of the trick itself.

Civilisation could be a natural occurence on some other planet, but it would require a species with a very different social order to that of homo-sapiens.
Bees and ants have the right style of mindset. They are altruistic and work for the greater good of the colony. It would be expected and natural for an advanced species with ancestors like ants or bees to naturally evolve to become civilised and make cities.
That would not be surprising at all. But humans simply aren't that kind of animal, its not a matter of choice, we simply didn't evolve that way, we are pack animals which by nature don't like strangers and don't want to cooperate with anyone but our pack members. We naturally feel the urge to make rivals and compete with them.
Please don't say "not me, I love meeting new people" all that will prove is you have no grasp on what I am talking about. This just is how people are, its the essence of what the homo-sapien species is, bottom line.
We suddenly started acting like colony animals instead of pack animals and this should have us all asking questions because frankly it is extremely strange.

I think I'm the only animal-behaviouralist on this board which is upsetting because I fear you people don't see what I'm saying. Not trying to be a jerk, I have no idea what most of you are talking about most of the time because you are far above me on the subject you are discussing. All I have been studying for the last 12 years is animal behaviour in depth. My entire human brain is packed only with this knowledge, its quite sad really, but understand that and don't underestimate my "crazy observations".

 

i dont notice anyone underestimating you since you've begiun being more rational and specific about your comments. i did state a source for a man who has studied what your talking about at great tlength and is in almost 100% agreement with you thought he is much further along on the whys and wheres and hows but that is just time. i agree with some of your thoughts.

 

Rules are not responsible for civilization, technology is. Our civilization has continued to grow only as much as our technology has let it. 6000 years ago, or so, we developed the technology for basic agriculture which allowed our tribal hunter/gatherer societies to settle down in a specific areas and to raise the supportable local population. Each advance in civilization has primarily been brought about by an advance in technology. The rules were created to help people to live together afterwards.

If you doubt which is primary consider how long it would take for the rules to break down if all the technology in any city in the world suddenly disappeared. Utter chaos.

~Raithere

 

with a correction. technology helped, along with art & literature, to develop the civilization that was sustained by sufficient peace by rules. technology also helped some nomadic tribes and other 'civilizations' to destroy the civilizations. technology and rules are not mutually exclusive and cannot be claimed, individually, to be the sole reason for civilizations.