God, Jesus, Holy Spirit: Holy Bible

There are competing religions with at least God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Catholics claim God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one. Baptists claim Jesus is essentially God. Lutherans think people always need Jesus forgiveness. Methodists are happy as long as you think Jesus is God's son. Jews think Jesus is a false messiah. Unitarians have God as their God.

Some groups use the Old Testament. Other groups use the New Testament. A number of groups selectively choose stuff from the Old Testament.

The groups cluster into Catholics and Baptists, Lutherans and Methodists, Jews and Unitarians. One group is right and the other two are wrong; or, all of them are wrong: all of them cannot simultaneously be correct.

Is any group right or are they all wrong? Why or why not?

GodLied.

 

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I think all the groups you mentioned believe in the <a href="http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/trinity.html">Trinity</a>.

 

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All groups do not believe in the Trinity because Jews do not beleive in Jesus as a messiah.

GodLied.

 

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This is from a Muslim's view.

They are all wrong about the conception of Jesus(pbuh). He is not God, he is not God's son, he is not a false messiah. It is a very simple answer. He is a prophet sent from God. There is no other explantion than this.

The Christians have broken into different sects because of their view of Jesus. In Islam, there are only two different sects. It is because of who they thought should be first Caliph. Other than that, they all believe in the same thing.

When I would ask a Christian about what they would believe, one would say we believe in Jesus(pbuh) as God while another will say Jesus(pbuh) is God's son.

 

There are more sects than two. There is the Nation of Islam and few minor ones. I don't think taht most muslims consider them a part of Islam though.

He's both. Confusing yes, but read the explanation of the site I gave you.

The schism between the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Church was mainly because of who was the Pope. The division between the Roman Catholic church and the protestants was mainly debate about salvation by faith alone. As to the indentity of Jesus, all mainstream christians believe in the Trinity.

 

Christians fundamentally believe in Jesus, hence their name. The Holy Bible has two parts, Old and New. Depending on the basis for a particular group, one group using the Holy Bible may be Christians and another group may not be Christians. For example: Baptists versus Jews.

GodLied

 

pakman. don't perceive god thru your own eyes. the holy spirit of jesus ( the holy ghost ) only, can reveal the truth. there is no other truth bar that. adam was natural, jesus spiritual. jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world.
this discourse is not to prove or disprove u, but simply a flower in a desert storm, ( i would rather have said nothing ). this is the power of the cross- love.
u think a moslem can't be in tune with the spirit of christ. in the end it is not only the honor of the religion but man's heart on open display.
god could and would not destroy a good soul.
reference- the gospel of jesus christ.
the holy spirit ( in the teaching of christ ) is also an affirmation.

 

Perceiving God???

firingseeds, you've fired off your mouth again in ignorance. Who are you to tell anyone else not to perceive god through their own eyes? Do you hold the copyright on God? You are so sadly ignorant of the power of the spirit of God! It would have been better had you said nothing rather than to jump in where you are the most ignorant! And what's this bullshit with 'simply a flower in a desert storm?' You certainly couldn't be referring to your own innocent position! I think you're delusional.

A Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu are as much a sacred vehicle for the spirit of God just as all God's creations are vessels for the One Spirit. In the end, your religion will be worth squat. It is the human being who represents God on Earth. There are no good and evil souls! There are people who don't recognize the great spirit they have been given as human beings, but there are no bad souls!

Your reference--'the gospel of jesus christ' is a new joke on me. I've heard of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John--even Thomas, Philip and Mary Magdalene, but not the gospel of jesus christ! Did you just make this shit up? How stupid do you think the rest of us are?

The Spirit of God is so great in and of itself, there is no way that this great positive force of energy would need to be channeled through one man for the salvation of all. There is no need for the salvation of anyone. By your present appearance on this planet, that should be all the confirmation you need to realize that as a human being, you are so far above any need for salvation. I am truly sorry that your god has lied to you and that you ignorantly continue to believe those lies.

 

medicine woman

only thru the power of the holy spirit can one say jesus christ is lord.
hey, i enjoyed your ticking off. u pretty darn good- wrong but good; ya' know what i mean.

 

Re: medicine woman

So, firingseeds, Jews and Unitarians lack the Holy Spirit as they do not acknowledge Jesus as Lord or even as God. Also, if you are Christian, your enjoyment of sinnister activity suggests the evil nature of Christianity. Hmm, since fire is God's food, God might be Satan himself.

GodLied.

 

Pure Trinitarianism (three gods in one) is just as unacceptable (Biblically) as Pure Unitarianism (one god exclusive to himself).

The complete Christian doctrine including all three our experiences of God, is found in Titus 3:

Since God is God, Jesus is the same God, and the Holy Spirit is the same God, the Spirit will not be "poured out" on anyone who does not believe in God by accepting Jesus.

By introducing this Unity (I use the word deliberately), God effectively made sure that only He was believed in and submitted to. Since there will be no other Saviour than God, there will be no other Saviour than Jesus. Since there will be no other authority to pour out His Spirit than God, nobody can be cleansed from sin by any other means (any other "god"). Thus "God is all in all" as the Scripture says.

You cannot believe in the "wrong God" by accident. Muslims might believe Jesus was a real prophet, but they don't believe the people who he prophesied to! What power or authority could His message have had then? Unitarians deny the same. Their intentions are well-meaning, but God's salvation remains "veiled" to them for precisely this reason (ask them, they will be able to confirm this). If there can be no trustworthy revelation from God, then what knowledge could we possibly "construct" about God that would be trustworthy? There is only one Saviour in the OT, and only one Jesus in the NT - to believe anything else and still call yourself a Christian empties the message of its truth, and makes you a liar.

Godlied

This is a vain attempt at implicating God with his followers, but completely non sequitur. If Christians were part of the Trinity, we would indeed have suggested a sinister God. If the Bible was written about and by angelic beings, it would indeed not have included wars, rapes, injustices and hatred. Why do you think we needed a Saviour? M*W says we don't, but obviously she can only speak for herself. Maybe everybody are "sacred vehicles", but very few carry any sacred passengers. The Holy Spirit is no "New Age energy". Jesus' Church is a hospital - you don't find perfectly healthy people in a hospital.

M*W
If you can achieve godliness on your own, then do it without belittling others. Show some patience, understanding and compassion. You can't "recognize" God's Spirit if you don't recognize God himself, that's just logical. If you say "yes, there is a God" then you must be able to differentiate between yourself and God self. You are not the same; we are not God, nor have we the ability to save ourselves from death.

15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure... 16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him.

This applies to Christianity as well. Nobody is exempt from judgement.

 

Re: Perceiving God???

MW,
Your words are so logical and powerfull that they must stem from a true solid believe. You have added to me a new prespective of looking at the spirit of god. The spirit of god is truly so great that it can never be channeled through one, yet is enough to fill us all and beyond. The chrisitans wants to limit the human potential but applying a lower denominator of evil to everyone and thus require one man to issue salvation from us from this low setting. They are so negative beyond belief that they attribute sins to a newly born child and think that through baptism and church doctrination they can wash away a child's sin. They are so evil that they can comprehend an ill concept that a god can hurt and crucify a child in the name of saving humanity? How rediculous.

 

Without reading the rest of your post, your basic idea is sick.

Jesus is not the same God. Jesus is not even good by his own account. How do you go so stray Jenyar? I don't blame you, your bible is full of contradictions, where half of it says that Jesus is in no way god, while the other half says that Jesus is god. For your convineance, the wrong half is the one written under the nose of the Romans, who were the biggest enemy to Jesus Christ.

John.8
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:


Mark.10
[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


Luke.18
[19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Answer me jenyar, straight without dancing. What is the importance of Jesus's sentence that no one is good save ONE, which is god. Why didn't he say three, or god through me?, or the three god in one? Don't dance and tackle the one verse and tell me why did Jesus say, none is good save the one god?

Why is the first commandment have no mention of the trinity?

Mark.12
[28] And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

It's the first commandment for god sake spoken by jesus himself and doesn't mention the word believe in god through me. Please explain to me the first commandment, the essense of what Jesus what is trying to say. Out of all what was claimed that Jesus said, when he was asked the direct question, of what is the most important rule, he replied, believe in the one god, mine and your god.

 

The "Trinity" is only an understanding of the means of salvation - not part of the salvation itself

Jesus did say:

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

We only know the salvation of God through Him. As a human, he could not compare himself with God (neither can we). But Jesus could associate with God through his knowledge and relationship with Him - something He intended to pass on to those who believed.

Flores, if your faith is sufficient to you then hold on to it. May God be merciful to you because you believe in Him. But I cannot think of Jesus as a Prophet and a liar at the same time, so I have to believe what Jesus said was true, and that His message was given for a reason.

 

How can Jesus be a liar Jenyar. Jesus as a prophet of god pure enough to act as fliter of god's light was one of the most noble humans. Don't attribute lies in the bible to Jesus, he is innocent of the corruption of the bible and your lies. Jesus is not the light, god is the light. Jesus is not the way, Jesus only showed us the way, but to each of us the responsbility of travelling the way.

Jesus was strengthened by the light of god, which is the strongest light that guides us humans. And instead of you following in Jesus's footsteps and strengthening your self with the same light that strengthened Jesus, you elected to dishonor god and look at a human Jesus for salvation and guidance. That human became your temporary light and on the day that only god light will shine, your weak light and all other lights will dim in comparison. You are like a man who made up his own fire for guidance in the darkness, but when god decide to send the rain to your fire, you will be left in utter darkness.

You never explained to me the first commandment nor the testimony of Jesus that he is not good and none is good save one who is god. I take it you have no grasp on the essence of the message that Jesus tried to deliver and prefer to rely on the marginal contradictions that you so efficiently memorized.

 

Jenyar's dancing faster than I can type

 

It's Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

Of course no one knows it All. However the christian standpoint is that God had to reach down with his right arm to save us. We had to see to him, listen to him and live with him. Also even if scientist are able fix our genetic aging there will still be hunger, car accidents, over crowding, etc. So the basic question are, how are you going to save yourself. By love or by your own knowledge.

 

Really? According to whom? Witnessed by whom? Reported when?

 

According to the Bible. we are all under a death sentence (eternal separation from God) due to our sins. The Bible says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”(Romans 3:23) God does not judge people for failure to believe in Jesus, but because they have sinned against him. And because of Adam’s disobedience, we are all born with a tendency to sin, therefore, we are separated from God.
Examine the Ten Commandments and be the judge of your own life. Did you break any of the ten? Then examine the interpretation Jesus had of them (Matthew 5:17-48) where even the words from the mouth, the thoughts in the head, and the desires of the heart can cause someone to be condemned to hell. And what about a person’s actions? Are they good enough? The Bible says, “There is none who does good, no, not one.”(Psalm 14:3), and “For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.”(Isaiah 64:6)
And what about people who have not heard of Jesus? What happens to them? They will be judged on what they know is right and wrong. According to Romans 2:14-16, what they know in their conscience, what they know to be right and wrong, will be used as a law to judge them.
So what will happen if someone keeps them all but breaks only one? According to James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.”
So what is God looking at in our lives? What is being judged? God is looking at the intentions of our hearts. According to the Bible, “… God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”(1Samuel 16:7)
Because of sin, we have placed a death sentence on our heads. And because of our rebelliousness, we have placed ourselves as enemies to God.
If God is cruel, He would indeed keep us in our own wretchedness, or wipe us all off the face of the earth. But God did not do that or allowed that. God allowed Jesus to die for our sins in order to fulfill the requirements of the law and settle the judgment demanded by the law. According to the Bible, “For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” (Romans 5:6-10)
Now mercy is extended to man because our sins were placed on Jesus. Our response to God is either to accept it by faith and re-establish the relationship God had with man in the beginning, or reject it, with full knowledge of what will happen from that choice.
Christianity is a re-establishment of the relationship God had with man. It is getting to know God, His nature, and His will. Like all relationships, it is built on trust, love, communication, and friendship. It is not the rules handed down from organized “Xian” religions. It is not a “carrot and stick” philosophy.
God has provided the way for everyone to turn back and re-establish a communication with God through the redemptive power of the crucifixion of Jesus. It is a free gift for those who sincerely ask for it from God’s grace. That is the message throughout the Bible.

 

Jenyar-of-the-70-Books, where did Jesus say (as you proclaim) "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."? When was it reported? Who reported it?