Pleasure or happiness is the ultimate motivator. All intelligent beings seek to please themselves one way or another. Religous people surpass "worldly" pleasures in pursuit of a greater eternal pleasure. People seek pleasure by amassing wealth or pursuing wealth. People pursue pleasure in the form of knowledge or enlightenment. Even if the extent of your exsistence is finding food to eat every day, you are trying to please the grumbling in your stomach and ultimately, you are trying maintain the pleasure of being alive. That said, Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing being do anything but the most pleasureble thing possible....all the time. Even if he didn't spend all of his time doing what is most pleasurable (perhaps he would pause to do what is second or third most pleasure every now and then) why would he do things he didn't like? He has no moral boundaries to have concerns with so why not, smoke weed during an orgy, whilst you create things on a whim? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I also can't understand why christians presume that things that are bad here would be bad in haven? Isn't one of the whole points of being on earth excersing restraint? So shouldn't part of your reward entitle you to access al those pleasures you felt guilty for wanting on earth?
He does do the thing which pleases Him the most, you fool: He gives us Hell. When we expire, and all the cosmos continue trielessly as though we never lived, loved, wept, and died, He'll make some more poor dopes to fondle and meddle with, and watch them blunder about blindly in the despicable, unplummed vacua of His cruel, inhuman creation. He's a one genuine SOB. Have a nice life, comrade. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i don't appreicate you calling me a fool. And judging by your reply it obvious that you have a problem with god and not me. So spare me your sophmoric, ill-tempered, signopistic,and mis-placed anger. And if god was so into giving us hell i thinked he'd do a much better job because i'm enjoying my life. Too bad you can't say the same...Have a nice life comrade! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
This is untrue. The benefits of God are now but also eternal. The pleasures you speak of are not pleasure. They are only the effects of depraved mind and we find loving God and others more pleasureable than your momentary false pleasure. You've just admitted to the existance of the soul. How can something feel that it's alive? Can that something feel death? Hell is a consequence of you not choosing him. And God does weep for those who are lost.
Okinrus *sigh* where to begin.... pleasure is anything an individual enjoys. It is wholly subjective. I get tons of enjoyment from playing video games but there are people who wouldn't pick up a controller if they were about to die from boredom. You say your pleasure is loving God and others...WOW. how fun.:bugeye: Is that your idea of heaven? I find pleasure in winning a football game, but someone has to lose for me to win. I find winning pleasureable despite the fact that some one has to experience losing which is not pleasureable (to most people i would assume). Is enjoying winning therefore a false pleasure? Lastly, God would not weep for those in Hell because he knew they would be in hell when he created them (all-knowing remember) If god did not intend for anyone to go to Hell he would have never created a system that allowed for people to end up there. People would get an infinte number of chances until they made it to heaven, (like "continuing" win you lose at a video game). Please, please, please, respondPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
An omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent being cannot experience pleasure. Note that all pleasure is the fulfillment of some lack or need. Such a being has no lack or need and thus cannot experience pleasure. ~Raithere
Yes. I do not believe in predestination. It is false and heretical. I just assumed here by all-knowing you meant that God was aware of everything we do at any specific time. In otherwords, we cannot sin and have it go unnoticed by God. If you are not aware of freewill, then I suggest that you go study more of christianity because you have only seen a very narrow view point. I'm sure that you've heard of the saying, "The devil creates his own hell". Hell is not god's home. It is the pit, a place without God. You have an infinite number of chances because time itself can be divided into infinitely small slices.
If we assume that God created us, then he would have to know what pleasure, doubt, pain feels like right? The definition of need is kind of subjective. No, God does not need us, but he certainly wants us. Otherwise we can throw out him creating us.
Re: Re: God would endlessly please himself I'm not sure i agree with the idea that pleasure is the fulfillment of some lack or need. please expand. Nonetheless, if god cannot feel pleasure because he lacks needs to fulfill then in essence, an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent god would do nothing. Can't some one find pleasure in something they don't need?
Re: Re: Re: God would endlessly please himself Yes. That's why he said lack or need. That would also include wants and desires. When you eat a chocolate bar and obtain pleasure from it, it is because you had a longing for chocolate to begin with. I am not sure if I agree with this as I understand it however. Omnipotent does necessarily mean without desire, it just implies the ability to meet all your desires, no?
Ok . . . firstly, FOOL, it's spelt "sophomoric". Secondly, "signopistic" is not a word in the English language. Thirdy, the hyphen that you inserted between "mis" and "placed" is not necessary. Fourthly, it's "if God were," not "was". We grammatically competent folk call that little doozy subjunctive form. Fifthly, you "thinked?" Are you serious? Right now, I'm hoping that English isn't your first tongue. No, God's giving us just the right type of Hell. It's somewhere between bland and excruciating. It's not awfully torturous, and yet it's very austere and bleak. It's worst feature is the fact that we can never find any answers in it. We simply can't derive purpose from this world, since its devoid of God, who'd rather retreat to His lofty perch and watch us skitter and prattle like ants with a conviction. He just lies back and watches us try to figure out what we're supposed to be doing with our lives. In that search we glorify Him, speak hypocritically and arrogantly, and commit atrocities against our ilk. I'm sure He get's a real kick out of it. You know Okinrus, I like you. However, I insist that you get a grip. "Giving [someone] Hell" is a common expression meaning that one is giving another individual a hard time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: God would endlessly please himself If you've never had chocolate before ( but enjoyed it) then how can you have needed or longed for it? Even an all powerful being lacks things...like the ability to destroy and then recreate himself. If he is truly all powerful then how can he destroy himself? and if he did manage to do it then how could he recreate him self if he truly destroyed himself?
Omniscience is sooo boring... Think of something that gives you pleasure. Now think of doing that a thousand times, a million, a billion. It kind of loses its luster, its pleasure, right? Why? Because you know the experience so well, it’s familiar, trite, boring. Now an omniscient being knows everything every human being has every felt or thought or experienced. Further, it knew everything before it ever happened, it also knows everything that didn’t happen. Talk about boring. In fact, it winds up being a rather interesting argument for free will because what could an omniscient, omnipotent, being do to get pleasure? Limit its omniscience. Create creatures with free will and deliberately forget what they will do so it can be surprised. Of course, then it’s no longer omniscient. A truly omnipotent being wouldn’t be constrained by logic, it would simply ignore the paradox. Therefore an omniscient being could destroy itself and recreate itself. It could also make a rock so heavy it couldn’t lift it and then lift it. This is one of the problems with contemplating infinity. ~Raithere
Pleasurable activities are activities that are encouraged by nature so we can live and procreate. Sex is pleasureable so we can procreate. food is pleasurable because it encourages us to eat. If God requires some activity to exist then that activity would be pleasurable. I tend to agree with those that claim God can not experience pleasure because there's no activity that he requires.
Truthfully, it seems to me that an omnipotent being wouldn't really do anything at all. He'd have no necessities or desires. Existence couldn't ever become novel and exciting for HIm. It couldn't become odious or monotonous either. On account of his all-awareness, He'd never be surprised, and on account of His divinity and perfection, He'd never feel ennui or restlessness. Furthermore, He wouldn't want to feel either of those sensations, since they would both already be old, trite, and blatently self-explanatory to Him. He wouldn't have a purpose. Therefore, He'd probably just be for all eternity.
