If God knows everything, Pope is Catholic's Oracle

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by GodLied, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. GodLied Registered Senior Member

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    To help prove God, ask Catholicism's top representative, the Pope. If the Pope consistently produces correct answers to scientific queries subject to experimental verification on 100 double blind experiments, there might be a God. Errors on any experiment instantaneously shows God does not exist.

    GodLied.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What do you mean by "correct answers to scientific queries"? Science is based on experiment and observation, not authority. There are no correct answers handed down from some authority. Nature is the arbiter of what is right and wrong in science.

    Your conclusion doesn't follow from your argument, either.
     
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  5. man_of_jade Psychic person Registered Senior Member

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    Im with JR, and another thing. Even though Im not a catholic, even I know that the pope is "God's representitive," and does not communicate with god in any way. Such a test would only show that the Pope answered incorrectly, not god.
     
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  7. GodLied Registered Senior Member

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    Give the Pope a test. Questions may involve complex integration, linear integration, triple integrals, double integrals, infinite series, approximation of functions by infinite series, ordinary differential equations, fuzzy logic, mathematical statistics, linear algebra, linear programming, complex numbers, numerical linear algebra, game theory, integer programming, balancing chemical equations, forecasting the balanced chemical reactions of two unknown chemicals in containers randomly selected by computer for unbiased results. The Pope may have 30 days to pray to God before taking the test. Failure for the Pope to correctly answer any questions will lead one to believe God chose not to show he exists and might therefore not exist.

    Recall, Moses claimed God gave him powers. If God gave Moses powers, God can assist the Pope in answering answerable inquiries. Clearly, since God said he made man in the image of himself and his friends, God should know at least as much as man so that God may answer math and chemistry questions through the Pope. Unlike Moses, the Pope has God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to help him.

    GodLied.
     
  8. GodLied Registered Senior Member

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    In another thread God sent a spirit to lie to a king through the king's subordinate. If that is true, God has clear power to use all spiritual resources at His disposal to correctly answer any answerable inquiry in mathematics or chemistry. Whether God chooses to inhabit the Pope or let another spirit do so is up to God.

    GodLied.
     
  9. man_of_jade Psychic person Registered Senior Member

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    Having an ability is different than using it.
     
  10. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    You are horribly confused at what it means for the Pope to be infalliable. He can only declare doctrins from the deposit of the faith. Public revelation is closed. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
     
  11. Mystee Registered Senior Member

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    Ok, we have been told from the Bible that we are not to test God right? well some people did try to test God when He was here on Earth. Pharisees came up to Jesus and asked for a miracle. He refused and rebuked them by calling the an evil generation. All He did was refer them back to the miracle of Johan. (Matthew 16:1-4) He wasn't saying "I'm done doing miracles" he was saying "I have already given you more than enough proof." And He has. There is no need to test the Pope to see if God is really. Look around you. Creation itself is the master work of one heck of an artist. Don't try to test God. I give you points for effort anyway. at least you're looking for God. Keep looking you'll find Him.
     
  12. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    Mystee,

    Welcome to sciforums.

    I would agree that some aspects of the universe are quite spectacular, but why would such a perfect artist create cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis, polio, birth defects, blindness, insanity, earthquakes, tornadoes, aging, plus several thousand other pretty nasty ailments that make human life for so many so abysmal?
     
  13. Mystee Registered Senior Member

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    77
    Big question

    aaa the eternal question. There are some questions that no matter how well answered will never please the doubting. This is one of them, but I'll try anyway since you asked so nice.
    Ok God creates perfect world right? EVERYTHING in it is just how he wants it to be forever. Have you ever heard of the oversoul? It's the idea that God, man and nature are really parts of one big thing. Well that's how God wanted it. Nothing separates God, man or nature. Perfect harmony. Well then sin comes in. well God is perfect. He always will be. So God can't be connected to something imperfect. So man, God, and nature are separated by one sinful act. After that things just spiral out of control. Sin grows and man gets farther from God. Well the way I see it God didn't create all the natural disasters and diseases you described. They are an indirect result of sin. Everything just wants to be one again. And they will be one day. Well even though God didn't create sinful stuff he used it for good. He made the best of the situation. No God never intended the Internet to carry easy access to pornography to every house in America, but he used the Internet to bring one girl to a forum sight where she loses sleep typing feverishly trying to bring truth to a broken world. So basically as a result of our own sins (weather we can see the chain reaction or not) WE have created all this bad stuff. Yes I do know good stuff happens to bad people, and yes I do know God could fix it if he wanted. The thing is, to fix it he would have to bring Himself, man, and nature back together. But to do that man must be judge for his sins. So why doesn't God stop all this hurting? Because he is waiting for more people to turn to Him. His heart is aching for all the lost. He holds out for those who will turn to him tomorrow or next week. But he wont wait forever. I hope I at least sort of answered your question, but honestly it is too big of a question for an infant in Christ like me. i apreciate the challenge though.

    Overflowing with God-given Love,

    Mystee
     
  14. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Mystee,

    So what was this one sinful act that started this whole mess? Your argument seems to rest entirely on this single event.
     
  15. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Mystee,

    Ahh you have a mission, so do I, and mine is the same as yours.
     
  16. Agent Smith Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, the pope is just like anyother person. The pope sins and the pope has weakness like anyother person.
     
  17. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    From a historical perspective it seems like a single event, but we really don't know what exactly happened between God an man. What we need to know is in the Bible, but as you are aware it does not explain things in great philosophical detail. The Jewish Kabbalists tried to do it, and it might be interesting to see how they interpreted the events...

    But I digress, this 'sinful' act has long since ceased to be a single event - if it ever was. The way I try to understand it myself, is through the idea of 'knowledge'. Once you have gained knowledge about something - to 'know' it - it is impossible to 'unknow' it. If you read the story of Adam and Eve you get to know sin as a process of temptation-->contemplation-->disobedience to God (the act of sin) -->dishonesty-->shame-->guilt--> punishment etc.
    What the Bible shows is just how potential energy changed into kinetic energy leading away from God. (A creation where potential wasn't possible would be a falsity. God did not create false freedom.) Whatever "happened", the result was that more than just our own 'state of equilibrium' was upset by this, and a veritable Pandora's Box was opened.

    God constantly interrupts this process. He wants us to take responsibility for every step we take in any direction (this is why Jesus could say: just looking at a woman lustfully is already an act of adultery). When Jesus did miracles of healing and changing, he was showing is authority and power to interrupt this process and restore things - but it is significant that time and again he said something like "your faith has healed you". He made it clear that the restoration or change still did not take override our freedom, but required a certain choice - a "siding with God". It requires the willingness to oppose the process and natural downward spiral of sin.

    On that note, whatever "church" or "representation" of God we have here on earth, whatever message anybody brings or proposes to do - it should reflect this redemption that God envisioned. The concept that best reflects this is love. Whatever else we do, it should be aimed at restoring love and peace - to work against the negative kinetic energy unleashed by disobedience from God. Many spiritual religions realize this - that somehow harmony needs to be restored, that some kind of justice needs to be served, and that, somehow, death represents this disharmony - and because this is true, many religions also "ring" true.

    But if any person, people or institution does not permit God to set the rules of this redemption, they are still caught up in this spiral of disobedience. The imperfect cannot become perfect by its own because of its imperfection. The mortal cannot become immortal on its own, because it is by nature mortal. This is the essence of the rift between us and God.

    When the pope does God's will, he is indeed an instrument and representative of God - when he doesn't, he isn't. When any of us do God's will, we are representatives of Him. It was always God who showed mercy and wanted to bridge the rift. He chose one man to embody victory of death. In Christ, God's mission and man's situation were both crystallized. Through Jesus, God presented us with the Catalyst for His plan of salvation from sin - God's Spirit. The bridge has been layed, but the crossing is hard. God did not take away the world of suffering, or take us out of the world, He crossed it (pun intended). Through Jesus, God provided and immortal body as a vessel for our (own) crossing. We must "clothe ourselves with Him". Through the Spirit, God also armoured us against spiritual onslaught. These things are hard to understand because they aren't measurable, scientific or neatly explained in some book.

    Some people have died, or "fallen asleep" and are waiting on the other side of the bridge, the side that is immortal and timeless (whether they are in "purgatory" or not is irrelevant). Most people venture onto the bridge and become confused between the spiritual and physical world, because they do not take Jesus' hand and let Him lead. Most people forget who built the bridge in the first place, or Some envision multiple bridges and ways of crossing them, or an endless bridge, or some variation.

    Where the body leads, the spirit will follow. Where the spirit leads, the body will follow. Faith or works? Both and neither. Salvation comes first from God, also by a 'single event' - the resurrection of Jesus Christ - but as with sin, this has become a process, a road we must walk in one direction or another.
     
  18. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Cris,
    wasn't it you who so profoundly said something along the lines of what we see as bad might not necesarrily be bad?
    Well?
    I think I might be the son of god because I can see how all those things you mentioned are great and amazing.
    I learned about natural anthrax the other day and man, thats just brilliant. What happens is anthrax lays dorment in the dirt in the african savannah, when there is a severe drought the animals kick up the dirt because its dusty and the anthrax attacks and kills them. Its cruel yes, but kind of beautiful, the animals were in trouble anyway because of the drought, the anthrax culls the numbers to make life easier for whatever remains.

    Its just logical for "bad" stuff to happen to living organisms in order to make the whole web of living organisms accross the world stronger as a whole. As living organisms ourselves we see these things as bad, but that is because we are partaking in this struggle for survival, we need to fear and despise these things or we would quit struggling and we would die and life would be no more.

    At least that would be my excuse if I was an evil god

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  19. GodLied Registered Senior Member

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    436
    Aging happens because God made people in his image--Clones live shorter lives than those produced from sexual intercourse. The diseases happen because God and his friends became spiritual entities as a result of first dying from something.

    GodLied.
     
  20. GodLied Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Big question

    If man, nature and God are one, is nature the Holy Spirit?

    If we create sin, we create natural disasters??

    GodLied.
     
  21. Mystee Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Big question

    No. But I see your reasoning. God is God, Jesus is man, so it looks like Holy Spirit is nature. But you can't forget that Jesus is God also. the Holy Spirit is God, too. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    A really cool explenation of the trinity I heard once goes somethnig like this. I am called daughter when I am with my Mom or Dad. I am called employee when I am working. I am called friend when I am with my friends. I am daughter, employee, and friend all at once, but I am called different things depending on where I am. God is Father when he is in Heavin, Jesus when He is in bodily fourm on earth, and Holy Spirit when He dwells in my heart. Get it?

    You also asked if we could create natural disasters by sining. Yeah I know that was rhitorical. The thing is we can not always see the results of our actions. You don't see that the dollar that dropped out of your pocket on the street fed a homeless man, but it still happened. You don't see that your actions break the heart of God and indirectly destroy the world around you, but they do.

    Tons of Love for all,

    Mystee
     
  22. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Big question

    So when Jesus said this "My Father is greater than I." he was in fact talking about his heavenly self?

    Well what did he mean by saying this "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

    Dave
     
  23. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    The Father is greater than Jesus because all of the Father's power was given to Jesus.

    "My God, my God why have you forsaken me" is a quote from a psalm. Jesus considered the Father as God to him, see Paul's writings.
     

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