The Tree of the Knowledge

[Bowser]

<font color = "red">Genesis 2:9</font>
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

<font color = "red">Genesis 2:17</font>
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die.

The above has always fascinated me. Is God saying here that ignorance is bliss? <img src = "http://www.exosci.com/ubb/icons/icon10.gif">



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It's all very large.

[Corp.Hudson]

"Get rid of wisdom and reason
and people will live a hundred times better..."
-The Tao Te Ching

[Emerald]

The religion of the bible promotes ignorance, which in turn paves the way for tyranny:

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares, 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping people quiet." ~Napoleon

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith...We need believing people." ~Adolf Hitler



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An ye harm none, do what ye will.

[Bowser]

"...the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die."

Which part of Adam and Eve died once they were exposed to the knowledge of good and evil?

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It's all very large.

[Tiassa]

Which part of Adam and Eve died once they were exposed to the knowledge of good and evil?

Well, after Irenaeus declared that there should only be four gospels because there are only four principle winds, four principle compass points, and only four natural elements, the focus of the Satan-movement turned its eyes from paganism onto Christianity. Suddenly, the Devil walked among the faithful, threatening them from within instead of from without. (imho, It was only natural that this should happen. Well, once Irenaeus opened his stupid mouth.)

Among the texts of Apocalyptic Jews and the heretical works of early Christianity, the Serpent was the only "Good" character in Genesis; everybody except the Serpent lied.

That everybody includes God.

thanx,
Tiassa

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[Cris]

Questions:

Is Gen 2:17 a command from God or is it just advice. I.e. is he saying YOU MUST NOT EAT, or is he saying YOU SHOULD NOT EAT?

If it were a command then how would Adam and Eve know how to react since they would not know that disobedience would be wrong at this stage?

Also, is death being treated as a threat or a warning? Either way death is a ‘bad thing’ but how would they be able to know that since they would be unable to recognize such concepts and besides they were the first people and had no previous knowledge of what death was or what it would mean.

What purpose did God have in creating things that were pleasant and good since without the knowledge of good and evil neither Adam or Eve would be able to appreciate such things? The efforts of God in this instance had no value.

God is not saying that ignorance is bliss he is demonstrating that ignorance renders people unable to make correct decisions. Without knowledge we are unable to reason.

In this case God laid a trap and didn’t provide Adam or Eve with any knowledge that would allow them to avoid the trap. Such an action can only be seen as highly devious, dishonest, and simply evil.

[Bowser]

IRENAEUS of Lyons (lover of peace)? http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainti06.htm

"Among the texts of Apocalyptic Jews and the heretical works of early Christianity, the Serpent was the only "Good" character in Genesis; everybody except the Serpent lied.

That everybody includes God."

Was that yours, or is it barrowed.

Funny.

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It's all very large.

[This message has been edited by Bowser (edited December 05, 2000).]

[Bowser]

Cris,

The best answer that I can give you is the example of my two-year-old daughter. She is not aware of the concept of good and evil. As hard as I try, I can't reason with her. As for the tree of knowledge...maybe life isn't possible without it's presence.

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It's all very large.

[tablariddim]

A lot of the stuff in the bible is allegorical. I think the tree of knowledge of good and evil symbolises mans' awakening consciousness and establishment of complex society and is a warning to avoid the temptations that he consciously knows will lead to the creation of pain for someone (eg: break any of the 10 commandments and somebody will hurt because of your action).

"When you eat of the fruit," in other words, 'when you partake of lifes sweetly tempting excesses' and choose the material over the spiritual, you close yourself off from the spirit, you harden your heart, blinker your perceptions and contribute to the woes of the world, in your own subtle way. Surely that leads to death... death of your spirit? Or rather, a burial of your spirit? Possibly, if you believe in spirits!

Maybe it means another kind of death, the death of our habitable environment. Greed and avarice, clouding every other emotion, turning grace into disgrace, in a world of societies heaving with envious copycat people who don't give a damn', except for No. 1 or 2 or 3! A world peopled with selfishness and self-abandonment, thrashing the planet and the atmosphere to hell to eat more of this fruit! And even the ones who don't have it, hanker after it. No one being exempt, as soon as they get a whiff of it, they want it!

Because of all this, one day, this planet will not be able to support human life! Spirit or no spirit!
Could an astute observer/philosopher in an ancient society have predicted it? Possibly, probably.

Make more sense?

[Tiassa]

Bowser--

Thanx much for the Irenaeus link ... yeah, the punchline's mine.

It should be mentioned, though, that of the apocalyptic and heretical texts, it's only one or two that suggest the nobility of the Serpent.

thanx,
Tiassa

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[synaesthesia]

"As for the tree of knowledge...maybe life isn't possible without it's presence."

That's a good point. Logically, given our world, an omnibenevolent, omnipotent and omniscient God is impossible. The workarounds include limiting God as you noted. (ie. He is not all powerful or all knowing.) Most Christians, however, maintain the three qualities noted above and so this doesn't work.

You can also work around the problem by twisting the meaning of "omnibenevolent". If you do that, however, you risk loosing the meaning of goodness. This approach is more consistent with the bible:

God MAY be loving...
"Love one another, for God is love." - 1 John 4:7

But he feels differently about love then we do.
"Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither ye have pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little chidren, and women:" - Ezekiel 9:5-6

Regards,
Synaesthesia (Tim)
"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
-Last words of Oscar Wilde