Why is god so hard to believe?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by VitalOne, Jul 3, 2003.

  1. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I don't understand why athiests say that god existing is impossible or that there is no god. What makes you so sure?
     
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  3. Philosopher Wannabe Philosopher Registered Senior Member

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    I think the question that all athiests want to know is what makes you so sure there is a god? They can't understand how can you say there is. But the fact is that we don't know there isn't one either. So we need to just accept that some people need/want to believe while others don't. And very few lay in the middle. Why can't we all take the middle and everyone becomes agnostic? Its no use arguing about it, cause we don't know the answers. Nobody can honestly say there is or isn't a god. All they're doing when they try to explain is expressing their own opinion. Take a step back from the argument, and just listen to both sides, they both make sense. God really has to do with chance, the chance of the events that occur in your lives. Like saying driving to work, there is a small chance that you could get in a car accident. And if you did and survived in a deadly accident, this might be considered an act of god that saved you. But on the other hand you could just be lucky, and your mind interpretted it any you way you wanted. It doesn't mean that you are right in either case. Just it occured to you that you had to explain it, and you tried to the best way you could(At least to the best of your abilitiy). It does not mean that you are smarter for choosing either possibility. We all just need to accept things, and know that sometimes we just don't know.

    "True knowledge lies in knowing that you know nothing"
     
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  5. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    The Atheist answer is,
    "And what makes us so sure he exist."

    It's a legitimate concern of the Atheists, partly, why I as a muslim, often respect their point of view although I don't agree with it.

    To me an Atheist is the more difficult position to take nowadays. It's much more difficult to live as an Atheist as it's to pledge aliance to a club that will protect you. During the time of Jesus and Moses, and Mohamed, everyone believed a certain way and the theistic believe in the one god was the revolutionary odd thing to do. Prophets were tortured for their belief and Jesus was killed for it.

    By today's standards, Jesus, Moses, and Mohammed were Atheists, for they believed in something other than was practiced on those days, they denounced the old gods and for that they were viewed as Atheists. Now a days, Atheists don't believe in the theistic way of believing in what their fathers did. They want to experience things for themselves, they want to taste and smell that god that created them, maybe not possible, but it's their quest and right.
     
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  7. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I know that you cannot be 100% that god does/doesn't exist, but most athiests are positively sure that god doesn't exist. There is a great possibility that there is god, so why are they sure that god doesn't exist?
     
  8. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Because their concept of god is a grey haired man with a long beired and a thunder bolt rod.

    I'm 100% sure that such a man doesn't exist even though I have no proof that he doesn't outside of the circus and the theater of course.
     
  9. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Vitalone,

    Why not? If you imagine something that has no basis in reality why would you then have doubts that it doesn’t exist?

    Firstly most atheists do not claim any such thing. Most atheists disbelieve in gods; very few actually claim to believe that gods do not exist.

    But to answer your question more directly: Because gods are just fictional characters created by human imagination. Why believe fictional characters are real?

    On what basis? Not only can no one show that gods exist, no one can show how a god might exist or that one is possible. So are you just dreaming or do you have any facts to backup your fantastic claim?

    I repeat: Because gods are just fictional characters created by human imagination. Why believe fictional characters are real?
     
  10. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Flores,

    Do you really believe that gibberish or are you just plain naive?
     
  11. Philosopher Wannabe Philosopher Registered Senior Member

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    There is a chance there is a god, but how big or small this chance may be we can never know.
     
  12. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Philosopher,

    Why?
     
  13. Philosopher Wannabe Philosopher Registered Senior Member

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    Any possibility that you can consider means that there is a chance it can exist. And also because you cannot tell me where this universe came from and why we are here. So any idea that you can come up with for the reason of our being has a chance of being true. To prove that there is a god, would mean that you would have to disprove that there isn't one. And vice versa.
     
  14. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    God can exists in a higher dimension controlling what happens in our dimension...

    The gods depicted by humans could've been aliens that created us......

    God(s) could be standing right in front us right now. The human eye sees less than 10 million colors, what if we could see 1 trillion?

    The reality precieved by our brain does not exist. We do not see true reality. Everything we see, hear, touch, smell, and taste are interpretations of our brain. Thus, only our brain is real. We can't even imagine true reality.

    Cris, you are right about saying that "Why not? If you imagine something that has no basis in reality why would you then have doubts that it doesn’t exist? "


    Prove that gods are Fictional characters. Perhaps your view of god is some imaginary guy controlling everything, but my view of god is not. Why do you believe what you see? It is only a fraction of what you CAN see (10 million colors). Why do you believe what you hear, touch, taste, and smell, it is only a sense created by your brain....
     
  15. Philosopher Wannabe Philosopher Registered Senior Member

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    Just because you could never experience god does not mean that he is there. Yes we are in the dark compared to our range of senses, but do you still believe ghosts are in the dark corners of your room at night? Or real people for that matter. Just because you cannot sense it doesn't mean it is there.
     
  16. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Philosopher,

    I agree. But no one has shown that there is a possibility that a god can exist. So by your definition there is no chance that a god can exist.

    For example, we know that given two dice there exist the possibilities of the numbers from 2 to 12. The chance of throwing a particular number in that range can be accurately calculated. But we also know that the numbers of 1 and 13 are not possibilities therefore there is zero chance of throwing those numbers.

    The mistake you are making is trying to equate ‘possibilities’ with things that can be imagined. We can imagine in theory an infinite number of things since human imagination is conceivably without boundaries. But we also know that only a small number of these imagined things will map to things that are possible. But even then not all things that are possible need exist. For example if I only throw the dice once then 35 out of the possible 36 combinations will not exist.

    So for you to claim that there is chance for a god to exist you must first establish that such a thing is possible and not just an imaginary object. Until then you cannot make any meaningful statement about the chance or probability of the existence of a god.

    Again this does not follow. All the ideas may not map to any possibilities in which case there would be zero chance of any being true.

    Sorry, but that is gibberish, and you must realize that surely? For example if I prove that all the infinite imaginative ideas for a god are false then somehow that means that a god exists?

    So until someone shows that a god is possible than I am happy with the conclusion that there is zero chance for the existence of a god.
     
  17. Zero Banned Banned

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    Everything remains nonexistent until proven to be existent. Does not work the other way.
     
  18. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Hmmm.....did you read my post? I listed several possibilities...
     
  19. DefSkeptic Registered Senior Member

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    "God" is a faulty interpretation of reality.
     
  20. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    You cannot prove God to be true/false so its a possiblity.
    Cris, I listed several possibilities of a god, so there's a chance now.
     
  21. DefSkeptic Registered Senior Member

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    Flores-

    No way. Information is being added on to our database of knowledge and reality is making itself more clear for the intelligent people who actually can distance themselves from the emotional aspect of the quest for truth. If you allow your want to get into the way, you have already tainted your perception.

    How can you say that the atheist position is harder to take today? Look at this forum, look at the scientist population, atheists are growing in strength and numbers. People today, have a lot more to work with in terms of knowledge about life and how it works, psychology, biology, chemistry....etc, all help us achieve a more lucid idea of what life is and how it operates.
     
  22. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe I'm naive, so tell me what is your concept of god that you believe doesn't exist if it's other than the grey man with the thunderbolt.
     
  23. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    There is no proof that god doesn't exist. So it remains very possible. As advanced as we are, we don't why things happen, just how, we don't know what drives things to happen, we don't why things react the way they do, we don't know how ideas are created. Why do chemicals exist? Why does life have order? We know so little. Reality doesn't exist the way we believe it to. The greatest scientific minds believed in god. God is probably more a force, the force where everything began. 1,000 years ago flight was impossible, no one knew how to do it so it was impossible.......
     

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