Tell me, what turns you off at the church.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Flores, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. Flores Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,245
    I have heard the spill of many churches and it all goes something like that:

    "I used to be an alcoholic, I took drugs, I hit my mother, quit school, moslested children, I was in prison, I did awefull things, then I found Jesus and look at me now, I'm your pastor".

    I don't know about you all, but that's a turn off for me. The man who is supposidly preaching to me is a criminal who claims to have found Jesus and gotten a call from god to guide others, and I never drank alcohol, never touched drugs, never treated my mom except with respect, ect.... and I never saw Jesus in a dream...Does Jesus only visit the mentally challenged and those in prisons.

    What's your turn off about the church?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,833
    Flores,
    It might turn you off, but to me it is one of the most powerful testimonies about God's mercy and the power of his redemption in this world.

    One of our churches has a pastor that used to be a satanist and drug addict. You would not believe him if he told you.

    If there was no control, I would say it could be dangerous - any old guy off the street could make a claim and start preaching, but fortunately it doesn't work that way. There is usually a pastor or Christian who has accompanied that person on his journey to recovery, praying for him and being his mentor. Of course, not all rehabilitated people become pastors - it would be wrong to think that. Many just join the church and try to start living healthy, productive lives.

    Flores - if these people hadn't realized their sins were paid for, they would never have been able to expect salvation, would have no hope, and probably would have just continued on their downward spiral towards death - often taking other people with them.

    To answer your question, though: what turns me off in any church is hypocrisy. But I'm sure God doesn't appreciate it either.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. okinrus Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Turn offs would be when the preacher says that you have 1000s of demons within you.

    Your right. The person teaching should have prooved himself. Timothy 3 gives some qualifications for ministers.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    When the high priest forgets to gag the virgins and they just go "oh no, please don't sacrifice us to the Elder Gods!" for hours. Bloody annoying.
     
  8. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,296
    No, just those up for parole
     
  9. okinrus Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Anyone who is in sin is a slave to the devil. By the way, Jesus did visit the spirit prison.
     
  10. daphneeee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    65
    A person who did these things that flores mentioned will either have guilty feelings or not....if he does have feelings of guilt then he is normal and he realised them by self actualization....he realised what he did and he felt it wasnt right. No god or jesus helps u do that....u just need to look into urself and realise it..On the other hand if a person regrets what he did only in the name of his religious group without a doubt he will do it again..A person must realise what he did and try to make himself better...not start to feel afraid of what might happen to him and try not to do it again...A person with no feelings of guilt is a mentally challenged one and should be institutionalized.
     
  11. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,833
    Daphneee,
    This is one of the most basic teachings of the Bible, that many people - Christian and non-Christian - ignore or simply fail to see.

    The important question is: what generates those feelings of guilt? Fear of punishment is superficial and does not make any difference after a while. What you have reason to fear is that what you are doing could take over your life and influence the lives of others. Only knowledge of what is wrong makes you think twice, but wrong in whose eyes?

    Remember that not all 'sins' are anti-social - very often they don't seem to be at all, and then they generate no guilt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2003
  12. daphneeee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    65
    I have already pointed that out Jenyar
     
  13. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,833
    Sorry, I must have missed it. I was just pointing out that 'self-actualization' ususally isn't enough.
     
  14. daphneeee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    65
    its ok....thats y i mentioned that someone could regret according only to his religious group....that means he regrets only by being afraid by the "consequences"
     
  15. Flores Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,245
    Precisely daphneee,
    but let me tell you a boring story that I have here. My daughter at 4 goes to a Montessori school that teaches the kids through self corrective measures. For example, it doesn't allow the kid to make a mathematical mistake simply because the a squre block won't fit in a triangular one and a teacher doesn't have to say a word to correct the student. Self correction requires some work for it to be genuine and effective. My daughter fiddels with the blocks for hours, days, actually a couple of years without help to realize the answer to herself.

    So please tell me Jenyar what beauty or effectiveness it is for a rapist, drug addict, ect....to go find a support group in a church tell his story, dip himself in water and get applauded and praised by hundreds, and gain fame and power from it and become a pastor. All he did was trasform his previous sins to new ones, he really never got out of his sin, because the reason behind his sin is a weak non self corrective personality that shifted from the drugs to the applauds and guarantees of salvation that he finds in the church. My daughter works 10 times as hard learning life than all your pastors in churches.

    I have nobody to tell me continously that I'm saved, Pastor x lives his life thinking he is on top of this world. I work hard and still believe in god despite the lack of encouragement and support group, who do you think is more sincere?
     
  16. Marigny Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    186
    Flores you're funny

    ...don't know about you all, but that's a turn off for me. The man who is supposidly preaching to me is a criminal who claims to have found Jesus and gotten a call from god to guide others, and I never drank alcohol, never touched drugs, never treated my mom except with respect, ect.... and I never saw Jesus in a dream...Does Jesus only visit the mentally challenged and those in prisons"...

    It appears so doesn't it? haha.
    Jenyar is probably right about that testimony stuff.
    But look at it this way, you don't have to be a mental case, go through all kinds of murder and espionage like Saul and turn out to be like Paul.

    They think they have the "passion"to deliver you to god when in fact how can they when they are constantly struggling to fight the disease of alcholol, call their mom a bitch, and the itch to touch a young child?

    I've seen and read the struggles, mister, and it's a sea saw ride with them, they have to constantly call on god to help them because it's just so damn hard.

    y''know even the 12 disciples weren't all bad, except for that angry Judas but he didn't do anything so bad before the event.
    so yeah, it does turn me off a bit when they claim they have all the answers because they have went through it.

    And hypocrisy, god, how can a person stop from being a hypocrite?? You try to be this upstanding person, and the minute you lose it you say things and do things that you normally don't do. So i think those ppl aren't always qualified, they're just like you and me except with more *unbalanced* tendancies.
    If you can see the glow or surrounding aura of a persons energy you'll understand what i mean.
     
  17. Zero Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,355
    Turn off? The sanctimonious "Look I'm superior to you all because I believe" look. It induces an urge to barf and yawn at the same time.
     
  18. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,762
    I remember as a young alter boy the shear boredom. Utter and complete boredom of mass.

    Oh and also I passed out from the incense smoking in my face once. The priest had to carry me into the back and splash holy water on my face to wake me up.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. DarkEyedBeauty Pirate. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    730
    I am not religious, but just a simple question:

    Do you really wished to be preached to by someone who hasn't experienced the good and bad of life? Do you want to be taught by someone who talks of evil, but doesn't know it first hand, that tries to tell you about temptation, but has never been tempted. It just seems that a person like that is underqualified for the job. They don't have enough life experience.

    I think the biggest religious turn off is blind faith. Blind faith breeds unquestioning idiocy...not in all, but you can see how it happens relatively frequently.
     
  20. the sage Guest

    when i was younger i attended church with my friends in their attempt to "save" me... well they failed... but here is why, in all my sundays attending church never was i asked to think on my own. to discover on my own... or that my personal search and knowledge were important.. i was told what to believe... but not in the way i know christians will think i am saying here.. they did not tell me "YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN GOD" what they actually said was more like "you don't have to believe in God... you have free will!! enjoy! (oh by the way if you don't believe you'll be cursed for an infinite number of lifetimes, you won't be happy, you'll be tortured in the eternal flames of the land of satan) have a nice week see you on Sunday!"

    this was the ultimate turn off.. never did any member of the church question the faith... it was a believe or get out... sigh.. i could go on but i think that sums it up
     
  21. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    Does anyone remember the quote about lukewarmness? I think that sums up the aurgument of been there, done that, repented pretty well.
     
  22. Mystee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    77
    Just my input

    Ok here's the deal. The way I see it, God is good, God is perfect, God NEVER screws up. But he did make people, and people screw up... a lot. Yeah there are a lot of turn offs in churches today. Lukewarmness, hypocrisy, the list could go on. The thing is not all churches do things the way God designed. The good news is not every church is corrupt either. My advice if your church peeves you is move on. Find a new one. God doesn't care if you're Baptist or Methodist or if you go to the church on your street or the one across town. He just wants praise and worship. And through discussion about how church is messed up are ok it is better to ask "How can we fix the Church?" Don't let the faults of a pastor or the over-all message in one church turn you off to God all together.
    By the way my pastor was an alcoholic, drug addict, sex fiend, etc. before he became a pastor too. Now he is the most God-loving inspirational man I know. Yes some people get prideful about it, but in the right setting a testimony as strong as his could change the faith of hundreds. Come to think of it, it probably has. Anyway that's my input for the day.
     
  23. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    123
    Well put Mystee.

    Anyone who's ever been on a retreat knows about the I did this that those those and them, now look at me. I gets old after awhile, but talking to newcomers, it sure seems to influence them alot
     

Share This Page