I have always has this underlying curiosity (or you can call it sneaking suspicion, maybe) that the God(s) of the Old Testament is/are the force(s) of Nature. My idea is that the book was written strictly to be read as parables that underline a philosophy of the structure of a society that was designed to succeed not only with man living in harmony with each other, but in harmony (or obeying) nature's laws. I haven't dedicated the time and effort yet to apply this to all the verses in the Bible (strictly Old Testament) but I have, from time to time, considered how well Nature (or specific forces of nature) would fit in in place of God(s). It seems to fit pretty well. Has anyone else ever thought of this? Has anyone taken the time to try and apply the theory to the whole (or at least much of the) Bible? Any thoughts on this?
The old testament shows a glimpse into the culture and history of the chosen people of God. The Jewish people. God in the old testament has many different names that define a characteristic of God, but has nothing to do with the forces of nature. Please review the different names of God in the Old testament and then apply your thoughts.
Yes , and one name specifically : I AM . I think you are taking the right path Raven , I do some similar thing with Islam , especially within the borders of Sufi . The deal amplified there is that God=everything , and I think this can deducted into Everything=Existence . I am that I am shows relevance to this point . If you care to post some things you have researched , please do I am very interested to study some of it . Do you use Hebrewic tetxs ?
Frank Lloyd Wright can't spell very good... God G-O-D .. Nature N-A-T-U-R-E. Anyway though... I think the whole point of I AM was an introduction to Gods people. God told moses I AM who I AM, tell the children of Israel I AM sent me to you.. The first name that God told Moses was Hayah. Hebrew word meaning I AM. The second name God told moses was YHWH. The original manuscripts left out the vowels. Many have believed this to be Yahweh. (LORD). If you want to know who God was, follow the old testament names of God.. I am Jehovah Jireh -Provider I am Jehovah Rapha - Healer I am Jehovah Shalom -Peace I am Jehovah Ra-ah -Shepherd I am Jehovah tsidkenu -Righteousness the list goes on... He never says I am Jehovah Nature(don't know the original text for Nature)
I think the whole point of I AM was an introduction to Gods people I dont think we are to speak of matters like "introduction" , its not a movie . Seconly , I believe the statement of I AM is an ontological one . I do not believe you can play the Bible out like this in movies , there was no voice (as it is) nor deity that revealed itself I AM . It was ontologic existance itself that was revealed . Mussa understood that IS=God . Islam shares the attributes as well , there even is numerological relevance with the names of Allah , proving that Allah=1 . 1=existence , in Arabic this , meams HU . AllaHU = Allah IS . HU=Hayah http://www.creationdays.dk/withoutformandvoid/XI.html God told moses I AM who I AM Can you provide the accurate Hebrewic scripture so we can deal with it ? There is no WHO , its THAT . I am THAT I am . He never says I am Jehovah Nature Whats the Hebrewic word for nature ? Anyways its irellevant , nature is just part of existence , not existance itself . Something can exist unnatural , is unnatural not from God ? Everything is from God .
All those conclusions from the one statement, I'm who I'm. It means in blunt terms, don't ask me who I am again Moses, because you'll never understand....That's it no ifs or buts. If god wanted to explain to us who he is, he would have found better words and easier description, but he doesn't so he told us he is what he is and that's the end of discussion. And let's see Jihad is giving Arabic grammer lessons now. He doesn't even know arabic and is indulging in giving lessons in the most difficult language....Very nice. Allahu is Alla + HU...whatever Jihad, that's just shit. Allah in arabic is written like Alif Lam Lam Heh, there is no Waw at the end to make it sound like HU. When the term Allahum is used, it's usually a human addressing god and not god addressing itself, it means, god yourself. This is like the christian belief that base it's entire belief system on one verse that states that jesus and god is one or Jesus is the son of god. How can one base their entire phylosophy on a couple of liners......And worse, how can one think that they are in the right tract by trying to play the grammer game to understand god.
Jesus refers several times to Isaiah. Isaiah is clear that God is our only savior and teacher. However Jesus refers to himself in these terms. Jesus also says that his disciples will not fast when the bridegroom is gone. Another referance to Isaiah where Jerusalem marries its maker.
God spoke audibly to some people in the old testament. Ill site if you'd like. I am that I am is a better translation...sorry about that.
and that's the end of discussion. People who end their sentences like this are usually very simple minded . Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And let's see Jihad is giving Arabic grammer lessons now. He doesn't even know arabic and is indulging in giving lessons in the most difficult language....Very nice. Do I need to know the entire language to know one aspect ? On the other hand , you cant read shit from Qu'ran (xcept for those modern-arabic-used letters) and you have all these imaginations that you know stuff ...... thats just a laugh . I know that I know shit , you dont know even that . Im just trying to discover and learn , I suggest you do the same . Allahu is Alla + HU...whatever Jihad, that's just shit. Then spell it out please . Spell out Allahu Ahad , Allahu Samed . I have explained in the other thread , you dont answer , but you DO have comments ? What bullshit is this ? Allah in arabic is written like Alif Lam Lam Heh, there is no Waw at the end to make it sound like HU. As if you need Waw to make it sound HU . See the above and please spell it out , not just Allah . Allahu Akbar . Are you telling me Ahmad Hulussi made up HU ? There's no HU ? He's just a crazy Turk who never saw Arabic , and makes up HU , right ? Dont play dummy , I know thats your deal , but its not working . You tried that same thing with Ummah , it didnt work . Please , get real here ...... When the term Allahum is used, it's usually a human addressing god and not god addressing itself, it means, god yourself. Finally we are getting somewhere . I understand it is a human , but why is it "adressing" , he's just stating . Allahu Ahad , Allahu Samad , Allahu Akbar So please explain me how the "Hu" (obviously it is there , otherwise it would be Allah-Akbar , but thats not what Im saying , I dont think thats what you're saying either ) is exactly translated . Its wrong to translate it into "He" or "Who" as conventional translations do , doesnt by using "Hu" one state "existence" of something , "IS" . Check out the Hebrew as well , btw . Its quite similar . How can one base their entire phylosophy on a couple of liners......And worse, how can one think that they are in the right tract by trying to play the grammer game to understand god. Its the most profound defintion given of God , and the very first revealed to Mozes , come'on now ......its not like some odinary maybe even irellevent verse , its the theological essence right there , what the hell can be more relevant than that ? As for Grammar , its written for Gods sake , what else do you want to use to understand it ? Sign-language ? Gods essence doesnt depend on some Grammar ...DUH !! , but that grammar REVEALS it to peoples , and you deny it because it cant contain the essence ? What a joke , you might as well throw away your book then lady . Just go sit in your chair and "believe" , have "faith" . Maybe Jesus Christ comes to save you too Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
God spoke audibly to some people in the old testament. Ill site if you'd like. I am that I am is a better translation...sorry about that. That is the interpertation of the scriptures , unfortunatly I dont believe in super-beings so I dont hold God=super-being definition like y'all do . And a non-being cannot "speak" audibly now can it ? Now it seems you peoples dont wanna understand that something can be written down poetically with amazing messages in various ways , and just some literal "schoolplay" interpertation of it . So please , give me the verses and translations , and I will try to figure it out , and explain it based on theological concepts that differ from a super-creature .
Frank Lloyd Wright On God and Nature: "God is the great mysterious motivator of what we call nature, and it has been said often by philosophers, that nature is the will of God. And, I prefer to say that nature is the only body of God that we shall ever see. If we wish to know the truth concerning anything, we'll find it in the nature of that thing" "Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" "Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you"
Evil : Thanks for the Hebrew .....say you happen to know some good translator sites for ancient languages , that doesnt only use the original symbols but also europeans ? Also , do you know any relevant mention of teva in the Torah etc ? And finally , if God would hold only nature , then what about all unnatural existence ? Just nature seems so ............. hippy Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
duuuuuh! Figuring out that the Earth is the only God there has ever been, in the creative sense, seems to me about as dificult as deducing that fire is hot. Calling any of the many bibles "metaphoric" is like calling a whip "motivational" Gosh, I'm really full of simile today :m:
Figuring out that the Earth is the only God there has ever been, in the creative sense, seems to me about as dificult as deducing that fire is hot. Why just the earth ? Is the earth the only existence there is ? Doesnt anything beside earth exist ? Then why I am that I am , why not I am just Earth ? Calling any of the many bibles "metaphoric" is like calling a whip "motivational" Really not getting your point nor intention
then: Who sounds.......hippy? And exactly what part of your existence is beyond Earth, except for your imagination? You can imagine Alpha Centauri, but we know where you live. As for my intentions.....LOL......ironic choice of words. Intent is exactly what I'm talking about. The intent of scripture.....mental slavery and fear. I didn't coin the term "God-fearing person", nor do I have much respect for anyone who dons it willingly.
And exactly what part of your existence is beyond Earth, except for your imagination? You can imagine Alpha Centauri, but we know where you live. How about the Sun ? Or the Moon ? I dont think you know where I live , and I have absolutely no clue on Alpha Centauri .... As for my intentions.....LOL......ironic choice of words. Intent is exactly what I'm talking about. The intent of scripture.....mental slavery and fear. How exactly do you gain awareness on the intent , just by knowing how idiots react to it ? Yes they are mentally enslaved , but by scriptures or by their fairytale-leaders ? My point is that : 1)Its seriously to retarded to let a bunch of deity-worshippers reflect the intentions of ancient scriptures through their reactions to it . 2)Even if intentions would be sucky , that doesnt mean we cant get knowledge out of it that they didnt intend , but that IS there . I didn't coin the term "God-fearing person", nor do I have much respect for anyone who dons it willingly. Neither do I , and probably neither is our understanding of it intended within the scriptures , why does everybody claim somuch knowledge on the scriptures , there's not one person in here that has actually seen the scriptures to know what the hell its about anyways . Who sounds.......hippy? You , I would equalize the concept of God to everything that has existed and that will ever exist , while you only link it to earth (nature) , it makes me think of flowers and woods and all that hippy-shit .
yelling agreements at each other? I know where you live. All that your mind is capable of has a location. Do you reject that you are matter? You live with me, here, now. If any or all religious scripture was written with benevolent intent, I don't know. I guess I dont really care about scripture (I love the Tao, though). Books don't bother me. Religions bother me. So we agree. What do we disagree about, again? !!! 1)I only relate a god-Earth because of the creationistic reality 2)Do you realize how hilarious it is to say "everything that has existed and will exist" and "hippy-shit" in the same breath? Do you have a Tom Brokaw version of the 60's engrained into you? What do you think a "hippy" is? An LSD addict with chronic Chlamydia?
You're welcome. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The only sites I know of are these: Omniglot - a guide to written language Endangered Language Repository "The Hebrew word for nature is "Teva". "Teva" has two connotations that may help us gain an insight into the nature of nature. "Teva" implies drowning or sinking, because we are sunken into and swallowed up by this physical world. "Teva" also is related to the word "matbeah" - coin - referring to a coin that has an image impressed upon it. Similarly the natural world impresses; so much so that our senses are so stimulated that any inkling of anything beyond is naturally overwhelmed." [More...] Maybe Jesus was the original hippy. I mean afterall, lots of other concepts are borrowed why not that one? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! 77 Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all has come forth, and to me all has reached . Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." -Gospel Of Thomas
