I'm interested in finding out why people who were once believers in a God (any main religion really) choose to forsake that belief. Why did you choose not to believe anymore? How have things changed in your life? Do you find yourself happier now?
ah yes, very much like santa claus. you get older and the idea of god just melts away while you're off having a real life. it's so silly if you stop to think about it that you'd feel like an idiot if you still believed. i used to believe in the tooth fairy and easter bunny too. edit to add: religious people are so dramatic. "forsake". puleeeeeease!
Well it is like this, I ceased to have any desire to go to church after I was about 12 years old. No real reason, just didn't like having to get up early on a Sunday. Sleep was more important to me, I felt like I had already learned everything they had to teach me there so it was just a waste of my time that could be used for sleep. As I grew older I had one female friend who thought I should attend church with her on sunday mornings, and like any 16 year old guy, I did what the 18 year old girl wanted me to do. It was while watching a baptism, and listening to the sermon being delivered at the same time, while reading the exact opposite in my bible in front of me, that I officially deemed Christianity pointless. It simply contradicted itself too many times for me to be able to maintain any belief in it. A year or so later, I stumbled upon a religious text originating with my Indian Tribe. (It is basically a rehashing of Christianity with a little more strict moral code and greater respect for nature for anyone interested here is a link) http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/iro/parker/cohl.htm For a while I thought they had hit the concept way better. Then I encountered a passage in it that made me think otherwise. It contained an account of this Indian prophet meeting Jesus. This led me to believe he had merely interpreted Christianity to apply to his people. Then I began to talk with a friend who is a devout atheist. He basically "deconverted" me and I have remained that way ever since. To me it is simply illogical that a being with supreme power and knowledge would allow any of their creations to fall into such a state of shit, and if there is a being that has done so, they damn sure aren't getting any worship and ass-kissing from me because frankly, I don't feel that they deserve to be lifted onto a pedastal for this crap-tacular existance.
what about people who came to christ later in life then backed out again later.........is there anyone like that?
i started going to church when i was about 8 or 9, by choice. my parents didn't go, they didn't inforce any religion, and still dont (although my mother has a fear of saying "oh my god".. dont know why.. ) anyhow, i think a i continued going to church for a few years, never finished catichism or anything.. i moved away from the church i was going to, and i went to one my friend went to of the same religion every few weeks or so.. then one day in my bio class we had a write a report on wether we beleived the creation theory or the evolution theory and support it (to be read by no one but the teacher). he did however tell us the total percent of each side when the assignment was over. i was one of a VERY small handfull of people who felt that we were all overgrown amoeba, and the rest of the class were christians who really beleived that god pointed at the grown and trees popped up. it blew my mind. it was like a group of adults who felt without a doubt that the easter bunny existed, and delivered easter baskets every year to their children. until that day i had never realized how much i had seperated things in my mind. reality from religion. i knew the bible stories, and i understood what they meant. but i never realized that people deep down beleived them as if it were somehing that they had seen on the news that morning, live, while it was happening. Like it is something unquestionable and unaltered as if it happened yesterday. not something that happend so long ago that could be changed and confused. and that was the day that i decided christians really were delusional idiots and i wanted nothing to do with it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I occasionally attended Sunday school as a child, and I think believed all the stories about Jesus, Noah etc.. But then, as a young child, you believe most things an adult will tell you... However, and I can't remember when it happened, at some point something clicked and the entire idea of religion, God, creationism etc. seemed frankly ridiculous to me. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I find it incredible that so many people believe in it. In fact, I think a lot of people believe it all, simply because of their parents forcing it on them.
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I was devoutly religious until I was about 24. Then I finally stepped back and looked at the arguments on both sides of the issue without prejudging the correct answer. Once I did that, it was clear that there just wasn't any rational basis for belief. Am I happier? I don't know. I'm definitley more content and satisfied with my life than I was then. I think it was one of the best decisions I've made, very liberating and fulfilling. But there's a certain happiness that goes with being certain that you know just how the universe works and that there's an omnipotent parent figure who's watching out for you and that everything is for the best. I don't have that anymore. In the end who is happier, Candide or Pangloss? I don't know, but I'd sure rather be Candide.
i was born into a buddhist family, both of my parents have very strong beliefs, but at the same time are very open-minded. in elementary school i heard a lot of talk about "why do you believe in God?" and of course i wasn't very religious and let it slide. eventually i got curious about christianity and started attending church with a friend of mine. i started to believe, but not because of the bible or the teachings, but because of the people. the friendships and the thought process of "all of these people can't possibly be wrong, i mean look how serious they are!" then around 16 i sat back for a moment and really thought about it. it was easy to say "i am right and i believe and i want to go to heaven! heck yeah i love god because he created heaven and i want heaven, gimme gimme gimme!" it was so selfish. i thought about my father, who worked 14 - 15 hours a day to support our family (my mother is disabled) and i thought about all the times i had cursed him for not making life better for myself and my brother. i was angry at him because other kids at school had all the newest toys and cars.. then i realized something. my father was doing everything in his power to make life better for us. working til his bones hurt and tears came to his eyes. watching over us and teaching us. reading books to us, and sweating til his body would practically fall to the floor. he was a good leader, a good role model. then i thought about god. god was more powerful than my father.. or at least that was what i was led to believe. but god didn't seem to do anything to ease our suffering. with the flick on a finger he could cause the heavens to exist, the earth to be made, or all life on the planet to be destroyed (ex: noah) and i wondered why he didn't do anything for all of the people i saw suffering. no flick of a finger here to help my dad's breaking back.. when i finally looked at it all, i realized that i couldn't believe in a leader who 1. doesn't let you believe what you want or learn about other teachings, but just to read his book and follow him 2. wants worshipping (my dad never asked me for anything) 3. punishes you for other beliefs like by say... eternal hell (my dad never punished me for believing other than he did) 4. created and world and then left it full of suffering (this only bothered me because in all his power god should have done a little something instead of accepting worship all the time) so i guess it was my dad that opened my eyes.. sorry for the long post i had to vent
There was no memorable revelation for me. No moving epiphany or mental maturation. Nothing passionate. Though I guess it did happen in stages. Firstly, I felt that God couldn't exist because I could discern no evidence of said existence. Secondly, I felt outrage and embitterment at the very notion of an omnipotent being demanding the worship and dedication of his suffering creations. He seemed to be very cruel and lazy to me. Thirdly, and finally, I thought: How dare He ask me to prostrate myself before Him whilst mankind, His children, writhe in contrition and squalor? How dare He do this to me? In the end, I figured that if God were more than a simple, misleading fiction, but actually a genuine macrocosmic judge, I'd rather fight Him than acquiesce to His brutish whims. I'd rather join Satan. Wait . . . is that passionate?
After enough "forcing," these persons come to think that they chose it all by themselves (without parental guidance) and it stands as an axiomatic and fundamental truth that may not be contradicted. This adherence hilarious, especially in the elderly, since it's actually all predicated on their pathetic fear of death and an imaginary "hell." It's funny that they consider all the other religions specious and misguided. Watch us all wind up in some alien Hell together. I'm gonna laugh my head off at them when we're all burning in the Pit of some other religion. I mean, what if the one true path to paradise disappeared some 8,000 years ago? Truthfully, that's every whit as realistic as the Christian God.
i also seperated it. at one point i tried to convince myself that the bible was history but i didn't believe myself. there was really no set point. i didn't think about it much at all and realized that for years i hadn't actually believed in god even if i thought i did by default because i'm catholic. i'm still in the transition cause i've never actually said i'm an atheist. i believe in possibilty, no definite answer one way or the other. the one thing i do know for certain is that no religion on earth has gotten it right yet.
No 'religion' or 'system' will ever get it right. We will always be human. There will always be 'spiritual' people who say you should embrace humanity, and 'spiritual' people who say you should escape it. In the end we're all just trying to stay alive as comfortably as we can. Therefore there won't be a "hell of some other religion". There will only be different descriptions of what people imagine "hell" to be. Isn't it strange that in the whole of human history, at least two major religions came up with the same "pool of fire", when theoretically - if it were just a figment of someone's imagination - it could have been anything? And why didn't large numbers of people start believing in spotted purple flying squids, along with God or "gods"? People only start believing if something has caused them to believe. Unlike popular opinion, not all religious people are one screw short of a twincam engine. It seems the earlier we go back in history, the more "convinced" or "serious" people were about religion. It is easy to explain them today as "superstitious Neanderthals", but the fact is that we can't explain them away. We can't explain away any past mystery - not the pyramids or the Inca civilization and astronomy... or even something as recent as classical music, except that these people weren't gullible, stupid and simple-minded. To think this about our ancestors - on whom our modern lives were built - is to comfort ourselves that we know better. But a 'comforting' though is not always 'truth', is it? There is a God who we can't see. One who had to create a plan that would present all of mankind - from the earliest man to the last person on earth - with the same hope: of being with their Creator for all eternity. Without taking them out of creation, or removing their freedom, their individuality, or their experience of their world. We have our lives. Suffering is a natural occurrence - it is natural that we expect someone with the power to end suffering to exercise that power. But we aren't honest with ourselves - complete my sentence: "God, we want you to remove suffering, once and for all, not just for myself, but for all mankind..." "...no. matter. what." And people stop believing in God because He does not exercise this power. Do you know why Jesus died on the cross? Because He did not exercise the power to save himself from the suffering. He was innocent. If he wasn't discriminated against for being too Jewish by the Romans, or for being too gentile by the Jews, he might have lived. If he didn't agree with his accusers that he claimed to be the "Son of God", he would have been set free, maybe still have been murdered, but at least with less prolonged torture and humiliation. Jesus conquered suffering and submitted to death, no matter what, just as we asked - and just like we have to endure ourselves. He healed the sick and gave hope to people who were rejected by religions and heathens alike. If he saved himself, we would have had no hope, and God would indeed have been accused of distancing himself from our pain. And guess what? You don't believe in Jesus. No sir: He did not accomplish anything - people are still suffering and dying. Ghandi did more for people. Mother Theresa did more for people. I did more for people than Jesus ever did. As a man, he just suffered like many other innocent people. As a God, He didn't accomplish what we asked God to accomplish. Or did He, just not "no matter what", at least not yet. See where I'm heading? Do we still have our lives, our precious freedom, and our futures - or did God take all of it away so that we don't have to suffer anymore, as we asked? We expect God to do things we wouldn't dream of doing ourselves. And whose lives, whose freedom, whose futures are we really concerned about? Our own? In essence, that is rejecting God for not being selfish, autocratic, demanding or "God" enough. Instead we play god ourselves, create our own happiness, do unto others as they do unto us, or try to escape suffering. No wonder Jesus called us hypocrites. Shouldn't we be glad we are able to love without needing God as an excuse to? Nothing is stopping us from loving and making the world a better place... So, either believe that Jesus was resurrected, that God showed us suffering was temporary and that the greatest threat has been removed through Him - or don't believe any of it, and blame your non-existant fantasy for preparing a pool of fire for those who cause suffering and death through their selfishness and ignorance, because somehow you know that's not where you want to end up. Just realize you don't end up in hell for not believing, but for playing a part in defeating the ends of God's plan for salvation for those who would otherwise have no hope, experience no love, and have no freedom - for those to whom life has become unbearable in spite of the faiths, holiness, priviledges and righteousness of others. The only "no matter what" for all of humanity is death. It's that serious. Stop expecting God to be a murderer, and thank Him for allowing you to live just the way you want. Just like sage's dad.
Well I don't know about sptted purple flying squids.... What about leprechauns, Unicorns, sphinxes, chimera, sea monsters, griffons, pegasi, etc.? In fact people even believe some of these kinds of things are god. Take a look at hindu mythology for starters. Monotheistic religions are not the norm. People believe in all sorts of weird things. Sure, but it would be sheer lunacy to suppose that the cause was always the thing believed in. There are lots of things we can't explain. And you're perfectly correct that we shouldn't accept a solution merely because it's comforting. When we lack any clear positive evidence for something, we shouldn't believe in it, even if it's comforting. But of course the mere fact that we lack expanations is not itself any evidence for God. In fact it can't be, as God would then be an explanation, thus undermining the supposed evidence. So although many of your points are correct, nothing relevant to this thread seems to follow from them.
Jenyar, Why not? And, get what right? Why? And I sincerely hope not. To be trapped in these fragile and short-lived bodies is a nightmare. If we consider ourselves as intelligent life then we can see that we have been evolving into this current state for millions of years, why would we suddenly stop and remain at this limited state? Unless of course some concepts are universal, i.e. a fear of being burnt alive, in which case it is not unusual for unconnected groups to evolve the same ideas. Perhaps because those things are obviously silly and fictional. And I think you missed the point concerning these fantasies. Without evidence both carry equal weight in terms of their fantasy value. But not so long ago everyone on the planet believed the world was flat, now isn’t that a silly idea? The fact that large numbers of people believe something doesn’t make it true. I.e. truth is not determined by a democratic vote. Yes I agree, and that can include cultural traditions, religious propaganda, and other forms of repeated indoctrination. None of which rely on objective critical thought, reason, or logic. The only way to believe a religious concept is true is to abandon reason. I agree but they are irrational. I agree. This is because they lacked the knowledge that we posses today. Neither had they developed processes and thought systems that we use today, e.g. the scientific method. Yes we can, I have just done so. We can provide rational speculations for all of these things. I agree, they were primarily unaware of the objective techniques we use today. But we do know better. We have a larger knowledge base than they had. It is not that they were stupid but just ignorant. But as we learn more about the universe then the more we realize how much more we need to discover. We now know that gods are not directly responsible for the winds and the weather and the planets. But isn’t it religious beliefs that do result in a significant comfort factor? Doesn’t Christianity say that if you believe and accept Jesus then you will achieve eternal life in heaven? Isn’t that the biggest comfort factor imaginable? But all evidence indicates that when we die we cease to exist. And it is that very powerful evidence that makes people very UNCOMFORTABLE and makes them very much want to COMFORT themselves in the quagmire of religious fantasy promises of immortality. Fortunately there is no longer any excuse for any intelligent person to make such a baseless assertion when they are capable of using such techniques as the scientific method, logic, reason, critical thinking, and the vast knowledge store that humanity has accumulated. That is just preaching a fantasy myth. Yes, life can be very harsh. Death especially so. This is reality. Only if you have been conditioned to believe such things. When the world is examined objectively there is every reason to believe that we are alone and that we have no reason to expect any help. The dream of men throughout the ages. Reality shows that such dreaming results in death. If you really want to solve the problems of the world then it will take a lot of hard work. Science has shown that many diseases can be prevented and cured; extending life into the 80’s and beyond is now a common outlook for modern people when only a century ago they would have expected to die before 50. The deadly disease of smallpox (the pox) that continuously devastated the world and was feared universally for thousands of years has now been effectively wiped out – due to science and the efforts of mankind. All of modern progress has been the result of hard work of people and not prayer. Be honest with yourself and face reality. Or because they can see that if we do nothing and just pray then nothing happens. But when we make an effort we make things better. Hmm, sounds like clear causality to me.
~~~~~~ But all evidence indicates that when we die we cease to exist. And it is that very powerful evidence that makes people very UNCOMFORTABLE and makes them very much want to COMFORT themselves in the quagmire of religious fantasy promises of immortality. ~~~~~~ There is no scientific evidence (of which you are so fond) of what exactly happens after death.........we have no evidence saying that we cease to exist because its impossible to measure or see that kind of thing.
Come on Cris.....You are a proud man, and I don't picture you as a person who shoot himself in the foot. So now we know about the weather and the wind....How come we can't stop or manipulate weather or even forcast deadly tornadoes until they kick us in the butt and we issue our highly advanced 10 minute warning that took billion of dollars and research to develop. Come on now, there is not one equation that science have developed today to describe accurately how a piece of sediment will behave in a moving stream, and you claim that science have discovered the winds and weather....Wow. Yeah, but how about the hundreds of new diseaces that have evolved, AIDS, Parkinsons, Cancers, SARS, West nile virus ect...., and that one earth quake that kills thousands or that one sonamy that kills millions, how does science handle those...I don't think it's a matter of science working hard, I think science is the bandage that you place on an oozing bleeding wound that you have no clue why is it bleeding like that. MODERN PROGRESS??? That's your tunnel vision view, I think man was much better off in the past living a simple life, conserving it's resources, without a hole in the ozone and green house effects....SARS, AIDS, EXTINCT WILDLIFE, POLLUTED WATER SOURCES AND AIR....Great progress, keep going.
New Life, You are joking right? When you die your body decays irretrievably. There is massive scientific evidence explaining these processes. There is no known record or evidence of any decayed body reconstituting itself and coming back to life.
