The bible rewards the rapists!

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Flores, Jun 23, 2003.

  1. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    2,245
    To all you men out there, the bible introduce a new way to get married to the girl of your dreams.....and she doesn't have to approve. All a man have to do is to find the woman of his dreams, preferably a virgin, then rapes her and walla......he gains her for the rest of her life....check the bible if you don't believe me.


    "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)"
     
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  3. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    hehe, I would like to see some fanatic christian fundamentalists try shove this up our...

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    It's in the bible, so it must be the truth. Wankers.

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    If ''god'' wrote that he must be a real idiot.
     
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  5. kajolishot Registered Senior Member

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    most fanatics reply back saying "it's the old testament"

    I say to thee, bullcrap. Follow the whole thing or none of it.
     
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  7. Jihad_AlifLamLamHah Registered Senior Member

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    See this is exactly why head-nodders should have no authority in interpreting ancient scriptures . Damn ...... it just came to mind .....those lunatics in Israel have their Shekel from ancient history ......... talk about plastic surgery , sick .

    Anyways , this entire exoteric bullpoo that comes out of the Bible etc deals with what we know in Islam as Zahir . I believe Zahir & Batin should be able to co-exist without contradiction , and thats a problem todays Zahir deals with , be it for Christians Jews or Muslims ...... and talking about Islam ....

    my dear sis , care to get to our nice discussion on Islam ? it just started to get interesting ....

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    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23090&pagenumber=3

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  8. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Anna Mesh okhteck walla enta Akhoya. La oheb araek Fi El seyasah walla fi el Deen. Anta tabgha an taskher menni, walla taeref ma fi Qalbi wa la fi Aqli. Al deen howa deen allah, we laysa lakka haq if an tahkom alla al akharin fe ma laysa laka behe tawkeel men allah.

    I don't remember rolling my eyes while talking to you, are in the habit of rolling your eyes to people and then expecting them to treat you with respect.?
     
  9. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    2,669
    Flores you have an inaccurate translation. Also do you want me to say stuft about the Quran? These rules were only to keep society in order. The law does not bring rightousness. "If a man comes upon a maiden that is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered, the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her. Moreover, he may not divorce her as long as he lives." Clearly this is not rape, but premarital consensual sex.
     
  10. Flores Registered Senior Member

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  11. Jihad_AlifLamLamHah Registered Senior Member

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    Oh come on now sis ......... respect ? Its just a silly smiley

    Anna Mesh okhteck walla enta Akhoya. La oheb araek Fi El seyasah walla fi el Deen. Anta tabgha an taskher menni, walla taeref ma fi Qalbi wa la fi Aqli. Al deen howa deen allah, we laysa lakka haq if an tahkom alla al akharin fe ma laysa laka behe tawkeel men allah.

    Yes very nice

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    You know I dont understand a shit you're saying here , so please explain your referal or translate it so I dont have to make an ass out of myself attempting to understand what you're saying .

    "I know ? you ...... oh screw this shit . Hey ...... provide a word-to-word translation if you wanna , I might learn something from it .

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  12. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    The NIV bible has an inaccurate translation then. I use the New American Bible. Anyways what does Exodus 22:15 say in the NIV?
    Mine says "When a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall pay her marriage price and marry her. If her father refuses to give her to him, he must still pay him the customary marriage price for virgins."
    http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm
     
  13. Quigly ......................... ..... Registered Senior Member

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    901
    The NIV has been translated to make some wording easier to follow, but as far as the closest translation from the greek and hebrew is the King James Version. In fact, Shakespear took part in translating the Old testament for King James. Shakespear asked for recognition, but K. James said no.. So Shakespear slipped his name into one of the psalms. Pretty unique how he did it also. Does anyone know where?

    Sorry for the rabbit trail. If the words seem confusing, you should reference the hebrew or greek for accurate translations. A whole lot more insightful if you care...
     
  14. Jihad_AlifLamLamHah Registered Senior Member

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    397
    Actually ........I Do :

    In the book of Psalms chapter 46 at word 46 You'll find Shake , and if you count from the end 46 words up you'll find Spear .

    I agree , we should all get the Greek & Hebrew versions , a scripture should be studied in the language it is written . They should include word to word translations in their Bibles & Qu'rans
     
  15. Quigly ......................... ..... Registered Senior Member

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    901
    I thought it was the 47th word, but either way its in there... A lot of people go and read the old testament and out of ignorance for the culture and the times, muddy the waters if I may.. Most ignorant people will eat it right up though.
     
  16. Jeremy Imagine Registered Senior Member

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    116

    If they follow the King James' version, then they don't follow the original manuscripts.

    If they don't follow the original manuscripts then what does it matter what they say.

    Do you Muslims read only the crumbling, original, centuries old manuscript? or modern versions of it. Even word for word transcription, it is not the same. The way a text is written, bold text, small text....it does have an effect on the meaning. Right? Right?


    Anyone for a Margarita?
     
  17. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, our original manuscript is intact and is saved in Turkey. Every arabic copy you see today is an exact to the letter and pronounciation copy of the original text. People all over the world memorize the Quran and if recited correctly, we would make awesome harmony without skipping a beat.
     
  18. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    The reason I speak to you in Arabic is because you challenged me disrespectfully under your other post to show you my translation methods and to translate verses of the Quran. As if you doubt my abilities without even knowing anything. Now how can you be a judge of my knowledge while you don't know the language yourself? And why would I be the stupid idiot to subject myself to your judgements. For that reason, I felt it's a waste of time to converse with you on arabic translations issues, since it would be a one sided objective, one sided emotional and subjective debate.

    Note: I'm sick and tired of you calling the muslims pagans and worshiping a diety, a matter that you have no knowledge of, and generalizing, and mocking me with your unhearty labeling me as your sister. Please stick to criticizing and studying the Quran and leave the blanket statements about the muslims out of your discussion. A word for word translation for what I said in arabic.

    I'm not your sister and you are not my brother. I'm not fond of your political or religious veiws. You only seek to mock me, and have no knowledge of the contents of my heart and my head. Religion belongs to Allah and you have no right to judge others with what god have not given you any permission to interfere in (human judgement).
     
  19. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    2,245
    If god didn't bother to protect the correct version of the bible, then why do we bother defending what might be a wrong book so much. The multiple copies and versions of the bible together with the hundreds of individual christian believes is a clear sign from god for all those that are brave enough to look.
     
  20. kajolishot Registered Senior Member

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    627

    Beautiful! Insider information about Islam from a xian source. Yeah, that's very fair. Nothing worse than learning something new warped to your biases and stereotypes.
     
  21. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    3,833
    Flores, you are being melodramatic. There are different translations (or transmissions) of the Quran as well (about seven I think), and all are recognized as having the same authority. Nowhere does the Qu'ran say the Bible was corrupted. Muhammad himself was convnced of its accuracy.

    nazzala alayka alkitabu bel-hakkee musaddekan lima bayna yadayehe
    wa-anzala al-tawratah wal-enjeel. (Al-Imran[3]:3)
    (He sent to you the book in truth, confirming what is between his hands, and He sent the Torah and Gospel)

    The original texts of the Bible are for the most part much older than the Quran. Since it reflects a history of people who knew God, it necessarily also reflects their cultures, traditions and languages. The Bible does not have the advantage of having one originator and one original language, it is much less "godly" and much more "human". As a matter of fact, with the coming of Jesus the "Word" has indeed become flesh. The Torah started out much the same way as the Quran, and it is equally evident that their strict laws expose the evil - which is its intention. But the gospels are the only Scripture that show how God carried out his plan for salvation, whether the people who were exposed as sinful can read the original Hebrew or Aramaic or not. The truth is in the entirety, not in the details. The details expose our imperfections, the truth sets us free.

    If you dismiss the Bible as blatantly wrong because it contains both universal and diverse information, you must judge the Quran by the same measure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2003
  22. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    2,245
    You are wrong here, there is only one Quranic version. I have travelled the world and have only saw one. Yes, there have been attempts to produce new versions, but they failed, due to the fact that the original text is in tact and could be used for comparison purposes to expose any fraud.

    The gospel the Quran speak of is not the moderns bible, the Quran speaks the following of the current bible.
    The Cow
    [2.79] Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

    Flesh and blood and garbage again Jenyar. How unspiritual of you. The Quran teach me that human is a lasting soul and very temporary lowly clay....Why is it that Christians always try to extrapolate the truth by looking at the materials like the flesh and blood. Why can't you accept that Jesus is a slave and messanger of god. Why can't you just accept that the miraculous birth of Jesus have no justification other than that god is all powerfull and for him to create all he says is be and it is....



    The bible is corrupt for the simple reason that the language under which it was written no longer exist and the original texts are unavailable to check the modern versions for accuracy. Asking me to accept it blantaly is merely ignorant and unfair. You are asking me to believe the crusaders and the catholic church words.....those who controlled the bible and it's editions for hundreds of years.
     
  23. Jihad_AlifLamLamHah Registered Senior Member

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    397
    RESPECT ?!?!

    But first lets get to Jeremy , because he asks critical and interesting questions :

    Lets see what our SIS has to say about this :

    Yes, our original manuscript is intact and is saved in Turkey. Every arabic copy you see today is an exact to the letter and pronounciation copy of the original text. People all over the world memorize the Quran and if recited correctly, we would make awesome harmony without skipping a beat.

    How true , but she seems to leave some things out of it . One of them is , that few of the 1.2B Muslims actually knows Arabic , and got stuck with some Pickthal or whatever translation , who FLORES herself obviously doesnt consider problematic since she quotes from it non-stop claiming representation of Qu'ran .

    Which brings me to this original version of Islam , that can be so wonderfully memorized and recited by all the head-nodders :

    An example is :

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    This is Qu'ran in its original writing , there's just one problem . Its nice to have something , but what if you cant read it ? The incapability to read Qu'ranic Arabic deals with much more than just part 2 , Arabic . Do you notice all the symbols surrounding the Arabic letters ? Well their wonderfull Idea of understanding is that it deals with pronounciation , you know it helps create this wonderfull harmony FLORES is talking about . There's just one problem , thats all they know about it . Are they aware of the semantical consequences of this special pronounciation technique ? Not one bit , so what the hell are they reading then ?
    Only God knows ......

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    This reminds me of a Christian who told me once :
    I dont need knowledge of the Bible to be saved by Jesus Christ

    You just gotta love these peoples .

    You should know Qu'ran has been about the first serious literary Arabic work , it is so original that its about the creation of the Arabic letter-system , so are we putting down more than half of the symbols (some actually belong to letters , so not all) used in the Qu'ran as pronounciation without a meaning ? Thats just disrespecting the book , and when you disrespect what you call the word of God you are being one damn big hypocrite .

    Jeremy , do check http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23090&pagenumber=3 (entire thread actually) , it deals with these questions , questions that FLORES things she stands above , she doesnt need to know or answer , just nodding heads would do the trick right SIS ?

    Respect right ? I am disrespectfull for a smiley , and then you come with this bullpoo emotional outburst of yours ? You need to go see a SHRINK SIS . Because Im not a reality denyer nor represser like yourself , Id love to comment on your cries of stupidity .

    First of all , EMOTIONAL would be on your side not mine , dont make me quote all things you yourself mention about your emotional incapabilities , please .....it would be humiliating . Please be aware what position you hold here on this issue . Dont deny yourself Al Haq .

    Now , for your bullshit , did you translate that all by yourself ? I dont think so , you used Pickthal or whatever , so first you need to understand that it wasnt your UNEXISTING translation that was criticized , but another's . No I dont know Arabic , and perhaps that is what would help me keeping away from emotional-cultural ties peoples get stuck in , Im from a ulti-linguag family and if I see how they all translate their bullpoo into some other crap , their knowledge of Arabic is totally irellevant , and so is yours OBVIOUSLY . The translation of one verse specifically that I happen to actually KNOW and UNDERSTAND in Arabic , you totally fucked up . But you dont care to answer , because its all argue argue argue with you , while Im not looking for an argument . Im looking for the ritght understanding of Qu'ran , and You're not .

    Must I repeat ? Fine then :

    You are telling me to explain :

    [112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
    [112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
    [112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
    [112.4] And none is like Him.


    So I tell you that :
    ALLAHU AHAD,
    ALLAHU SAMED,
    LAMYALID & LAMYULAD
    LAMYAKUN LAHU QUFUWAN AHAD


    What you say is totally mistranslated first of all .

    Allahu Ahad doesnt mean : He , Allah , is One .
    It means : Allah is One (Ultimate Whole) . Where do you see 4 words ? I only see ALLAH + HU + AHAD . What HE ? Where HE ? HU=HE ?
    Allah HE One ? At least that would be logical , so even by your OBVIOUS understanding the translation is incorrect .

    The *One* of Ahad deals with the quality of One-ness , not with ONE specific object omongst OTHER .

    Allahu Samed doesnt mean : Allah is He on Whom all depend.
    Now all of a sudden we need IS between Allah and He ? Where's Whom ?

    Anyways , only thing sayng here is Allah=Samed . And Samed = "That which has no gap, which is in perfect condition, is whole without holes and is impermeable; that which admits nothing in, nothing out". It means "solid," same as in that when we say "solid gold". In other words, mere, pure, the absolute! (Ahmad Hulussi)

    Being ''SAMED'' states that Allah is not in need of anything for Allah's self .

    So lets proceed : LAMYALID & LAMYULAD
    Doesnt mean : He begets not, nor is He begotten. No the HE is the problem once again ....... oh they can help it I know , its just how King James works as well ...... he this he that ....
    Oh well ....

    Anyways : HU DID NOT BEGET , HU WAS NOT BEGOTTEN

    But then the real beauty :
    LAMYAKUN LAHU QUFUWAN AHAD
    And none is like Him. ?

    LMFAO

    Im not even getting into this one , even a non-Arabic speaking person can see the totally fallascious way to translate this . I wish I knew the proper way , I dont . Ive seen possibilities :
    Ahmad Hulussi proposes :

    There is not an existence of another being after HU's macro or micro likeness; HU is matchless, peerless and is AHAD."

    I dont agree , he makes the same over-translative error , he does point out to the following Ayaat :

    "LAYSA KAMISLIHII SHAY'A" (42:11) meaning, "neither in macro nor in micro plan, there is nothing to be compared with HU."

    One thing I do know , even those damn obvious Arabic words are totally misunderstood , what about the pronounciation signs ? Damn i keep forgetting how they are called . In the end you know SHIT and so do I , the difference is I am willing to admit and learn , while you go with your literal understanding of mistranslations and simple guesses ....

    Why not take this literary as well :
    He who is scalded by the soup blows on the yogurt.
    Go blow on your yoghurt
    They said to the mule, ''Who is your father?'' He said, ''The horse is my uncle.''
    Go talk to a muel
    If you cannot be a lighthouse, at least be a candle.
    Yes go set yourself on fire

    This doesnt go for just Muslims , Ive asked this many peoples before , why do you think literal understanding is
    a)correct understanding
    b)your Gods literal understanding

    But Im getting off topic , anyways ........

    And the there's the Alif Lam Mim etc etc , and all the numerology ........ can you get off your "I know Islam"-throne and admit you know shit ?

    The fact that you dont except Ummah to be ONE is your problem not mine , I told you you're still SIS weither you like it or not , deal with it . But what you need to deal with also is this mix-up of things you seem to be having fun making . It is YOU who called me Pagan and Atheist PLENTY times , while Im not judging Muslims for who they are as Muslims . But i do point out that it is YOU who are the one having deity's , not me .

    And yes I do have knowledge of what you worship , Im not a damn idiot .....dont think you're such a mystery SIS .

    Well thats not a word-for-word translation but Ok ......

    lol

    And Im not fond of your psychology nor your sociologic ties that have lead to your political & religious views . PS , why bring in Politics ...because you really need to show how much you cant stand me beyond this whole damn discussion we're having ? lol , you're so funny .

    I mock those who seek to insult me , I have been very very very friendly to you , when I have said something regrettable I have appologized multiple times , dont turn things around here SIS .
    What are you , history-revisionist ? Well you're doing a bad job if you are .....

    if it belongs to Allah then how come you seem to have all thise "knowledge" about it , all these "opinions" about it ? You steel it from Allah ? You thief . I dont have the right to do so , I also dont have the right NOT to do so , I also DONT need any permission to interfere in any judgement . Who do you think you are that you can have YOUR God judging me what to do ? Your God you can stick right up your ASS SIS , maybe you'll gain sudden Wahy ....... or at least some Ilham .

    If God didnt bother to tell people what the hell his WORD means , then why WRITE IT ?

    Brave ? LOL . Get your telescope ready SIS , lets LOOK .
     

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