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Thread: Yeshua ben Joseph

  1. #1

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    Yeshua ben Joseph, whom you call Jesus of Nazareth, is a great god, just as you are a great god. But he is not only son of God; he is a son of God. He was a man who became God, just as you will become God.

    What did Yeshua teach? That he is the son of God-and indeed he is. But he also openly proclaimed that everyone is also a son of God. He taught nothing other than that. Everyone is God expressing his perfection as man. And what good would it be for the Father to have so many children who are imbeciles and only one who is perfect? It would not be a very good reflection on the Father's seed.

    Yeshua is your brother, not your savior. He was a man who had God within in-just as you have God within you.

    Now, I wish you to understand this: Yeshua lived on this plane at a time when man did not love man, when man was in bondage to man and love was not held in high regard. But Yeshua exemplified love- for everyone! It was the same love that would foster his being hailed "savior of the world," for he brought love to this plane where very few expressed it, and he gave it openly to everyone. He also brought the teaching that the Father is not a God of judgment and retribution, but an all-loving God of mercy, grace, and compassion. Unfortunately, that understanding has been greatly altered throughtout history, and throught the writings of those who very much failed to understand the simple teaching of this immaculate soul.

    Yeshua loved. That was his great magnificent gift to mankind. And he openly proclaimed that the source of that love was the Father that lived within him-the same Father that lived within all people. What gave Yeshua the freedom and power to embrace all humanity was that he knew that the Father and he were one and the same. He peeled away all the illusions that caused him to live an hypocrisy; and by doing so, he expressed completely the father who lived within him. In that, Yeshua became a christ: man expressing wholly as God; God expressing completely in man. That is what the term christ means: God-man; man-God. A christ is anyone who realizes that he is God and then lives that truth.

    The only difference between Yeshua and you, is Yeshua understood the principle of God within man, and then he lived that principle completely. For that, he is indeed a grand entity. But you are also a grand entity who possesses the same nobleness and the same love to become what he became.

    Yeshua is not responsible for saving you or anyone else. Through the realization that he was God living on earth, he became the savior of himself, who then taught others how to be their own salvation through the God within themselves. He taught everyone, "What I have done, all may do, for the Father and you are one. Your kingdom is not of this place. The kingdom of heaven is within you." And he spoke not of hell. He spoke of life and its beauty.

  2. #2
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    I don't know where you got your ideas from, maybe you could share your sources.

    I believe the best evidence of who Jesus was can be found in the Bible, since that is where our knowledge of him begins.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

    If we follow this chapter through, we can see that the Word is Jesus. I agree that we are all sons and daughters of God, but not even close to the same sense as Jesus. Jesus is part of the Godhead- Elohim (Genesis 1:1). This word is plural yet singular, one whole deity consisting of three, Jesus being one of them. As for the statement "Everyone is God expressing his nature as man", what Bible are you reading? The Bible says we were created "a little lower than the angels. To claim that we are God is a dangerous thing and leads not to the fullness of love but to the heights of self agrandization.

    That's the way I understand it anyway.

  3. #3
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    Well hello Satan!

    Uh, not. Man will never become God. God speaks to you but you will never become Him. And there will never be a man alive from now until the end that is spoken of in Revelations that will remain sinless his life as Christ did. Jesus was a God-man. The product of God, our Father, and a human woman. There is no other like Him, nor will there be. There will be though, spawn of demons, hybrid with humans...many...it's spoken of often enough in the Bible. They do this to teach of a spiritual heirarchy that does not exist. One that replaces the truth. One that teaches that, yes you too can become God. What a crock of shit. Everyone of us has the propensity to strive toward being Christ-like, BUT ONLY IN KNOWING HIM CAN YOU EVER STRIVE TO ACHIEVE THIS. And even then, you will not achieve this. Let me guess, just a genetic tweak here and there, and we'll all be good to go to the next spiritual plane right? Give me a cosmic break!

    ------------------
    You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

    [This message has been edited by Lori (edited August 01, 2000).]

  4. #4

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    God loves you with greater love than you have ever fathomed, for it is the life that you are, the ground that you walk on, the air that you breathe.


    MY BELOVED BROTHERS, MANY OF YOU have been taught for ages that the essence called God is a somber, fearsome, angry, judgmental character. But God is none of these things. The God who harangues, who judges, who persecutes, has never existed except in the hearts and minds of men. It is man who created a god that judges some and exalts others. That is the god of man, the creation of man and his will.

    The God that I know, that I love, this is the power that issues forth from me and the kingdom that I am, is a God of complete and unjudgmental love. It is nothing else, but everything else. God loves you with greater love than you have ever fathomed, for it is the life that you are, the ground that you walk on, the air that you breathe. It is the color of your skin, the magnificence of your eyes, the gentleness of you touch. It is you in every moment that you are, in every thought that you think, in every deed that you do, ever in the shadows of your soul.

    God is an all-consuming force that is everything. It is the wind upon the water, the changing of leaves, the simplicity of a rose, deep in its color and hue. God is lovers in their embrace, children in their laughter, and the sheen of honey colored hair. It is the sun rising in the morning, a star twinkling in the night, the moon waxing and waning across the midnight sky. God is the beauteous insect, the humble bird in flight, the vile and ugly worm. God is movement and color, sound and light. God is passion. God is love. God is joy. God is sadness. That which is, all that is, is what you term God the Father, the totality of life and the lover of all that it is.

    God is not a singular character who sits upon a throne and judges the whole of life. God is the whole of life-every pulsating moment. It is the ongoingness and foreverness of everything that is.

    Do you think that you have been judged by life? Not at all. For if God, which is what you are, were to judge you, it would certainly be judging itself! And why would the Supreme Intelligence do that?
    The life-force that you term the Father does not even have the ability to judge you, or any other thing. For life does not possess a personality with an ego that can divide itself into facets of good and evil, right and wrong, perfect and imperfect. If God possessed an ego, it would also possess the ability to perceive alterdness within itself. And if God could contemplate alteredness within its being, even for one moment, then the life that God is would cease in the next moment-and it would never be again!

    God, or itself, is wholly without goodness or evil. It is wholly without positive or negative. God is not perfect, for perfection is a limitation to ongoing, ever changing, exuberant life. God simply is. The only thing your beloved Father knows how to do is to be, so that everything-which is him-can express the life that it is.

    God is unlimited, supreme being-ness, an undivided totality of is-ness. And that isness loves you so grandly that is has allowed you to create the illusions of perfection and imperfection, good and evil, positive and negative. And throught your perception it has become what you have perceived. Thus God, being the totality of all that is, is the wrong as well as the right; it is the ugliness as well as the beauty; it is the vileness as well as the divinity.

    The Father has never judged you, inthis or any moment you have ever lived. He has been you and the platform of life upon which you have expressed your own divine, purposeful self. He has given you thw uniqueness of your own ego and the freedom of will to become whatever you wish to become, to perceive the life that he is however you choose to perceive it. And nothing you have ever done, nothing you have ever thought, no matter how vile or wretched or wonderful it has been, has ever been seen by God as anything other than being.

    This God that I know loves you with greater, more profound love than you have ever conceived of, for it has allowed you to create your life however you have desired. The Father has always loved you. He knows of no other way to perceive you, for that which you are is him.

    The Father sees no wrong; he sees only himself. The Father sees no failure; he sees only he isness going into forever. You create the blossoms of life and even the vileness of it, and the Father will become the vileness and the blossoms and yet never judge the two as to which is greater or which is less. He simply is. He is the isness that allows you to express through him however you choose. And it is a good thing he is that way, for if he truly were this God created by man, their is not one of you who would ever see what is called "pearled gates." Not one of you! For their is not one of you who could ever live up to the expectations of this god created by man.

    Only you, through your own attitudes and the acceptance of the attitudes of others, have ever judged yourself. Only you have only caused yourself to feel failure. With the ability to create from your Father whatever truth and reality you desire, you are the sole judge of your own life. Only you have ever determined what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong. Yet in the Isness, called life, no thing is any of these. Everything simply is... a part of the Isness that is called God Almighty. Your judgment is only an illusion that you have created upon this plane of creative realities.

    In your limited thinking you have thought that some things are wrong, that they are evil. But that has been your selection of truth, and the Father has allowed you to have it. His truth is called Isness. God loves you regardless of what you do, because everything you do or think enhances the life that he is through the wisdom that you gain from it. God knows that you are forever and that nothing you do can ever take your life-force from you. So, when you pass from this plane and you ponder all the things that you have ever done in your life (and the will), God will still be there, loving you into all of your tommorows for he is the platform through which you create your illusions, your imagination, your dreams.

    Now, what is God in its most exalted form? Thought. The Father, the platform which you create your life, the substance and life-force of all things, is, in a greater understanding,Thought. For thought is the ultimate creator of all things that are, that ever have been, that ever will. Thought is the substance from which all things are created. Everything that is has come forth first from thought, which is the supreme intelligence called the Mind of God.

    Have you ever pondered what holds all things together in their unique patterns and forms? It is thought, which is the "cosmic glue" called love. That is what holds all matter together. That is love on the grandest scale of all, for that is what the father is. Everything, even your body, is held together by thought. For everything has been envisioned throught thought, which is God, and it is the Father's love of himself that holds everything in place.

    You are held together by God. What allows all the molecular and cellular structures of your body to cling together is the love and the grand magnificent Thought that God truly is. Without thought, your body would not exist, matter would not exist-nothing would exist, for thought is the creator and supportive element of all life.

    Do you think that God, the thought that holds and binds all things together, is a somber and fearsome entity? It is not. The Father is complete joy, for he knows no other way to be. He is all life-forms vibrating in harmony with one another, which emits a tone that sounds like the roar of laughter. If you listen carefully you can ever hear the music of the Father, the laughter of God. It is the most joyous. I have not once heard him weep.

    So what is God, the cause of your precious being, the wondrous life-force that flows and ebbs amongst all of you, that connects and binds you together, that is the promise of life hereafter and eternities to come? It is the Isness that is thought. It is the Isness that is ongoing life. It is the Isness that loves all that it is. It is the Isness that allows life to be through love. It is the Isness that is complete and utter joy. That is your heritage... and your destiny.



  5. #5
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    MY BELOVED BROTHERS, MANY OF YOU have been taught for ages that the essence called God is a somber, fearsome, angry, judgmental character. But God is none of these things. The God who harangues, who judges, who persecutes, has never existed except in the hearts and minds of men. It is man who created a god that judges some and exalts others. That is the god of man, the creation of man and his will.

    The God that I know, that I love, this is the power that issues forth from me and the kingdom that I am, is a God of complete and unjudgmental love. It is nothing else, but everything else. God loves you with greater love than you have ever fathomed, for it is the life that you are, the ground that you walk on, the air that you breathe. It is the color of your skin, the magnificence of your eyes, the gentleness of you touch. It is you in every moment that you are, in every thought that you think, in every deed that you do, ever in the shadows of your soul.
    And you are BABA ?? Or should that be Urantia book reader number ?

    Well you've got a part of the picture correct, that part being that God is love and that in all things and through all things He makes His presence know to mankind. Getting back to what you said however, it is interesting that we would rather see only one side of who God is and deny the other. To say that God is pure love and then deny that He judges is in itself in my opinion a fallacy and lie. Consider for a moment what exactly it is that you are defining as God's love? Are you saying that Love / God is an emotion presence? Are you saying that Love / God is a state of mind? Are you saying that Love / God is a spiritual plane? A plateau so to speak that we can reach and attain by purging all evil from ourselves? By not being judgemental? Are you inferring that the God of the Jewish / Christian faith is not truly God because He judges?

    I would be as bold to state that if these are your views on God and Love they are very wrong. Wrong because Love calls for action and Love calls for responsibility, both of which are character traits of who God is. God is love, and because He is love He must pass judgement. God is Love, and because He is love He must set limits. God is Love, and because He is Love He offers eternal forgiveness to mankind for contravening the boundaries that He has set in Love for the protection of His creation.

    Why does God judge? Why will God one day draw time to a close to judge the actions of each and every human being? Why because He is Love and Love calls for and demands justice, justice for all the innocent lives destroyed by acts of violence and selfish ambition. Why do you thing God judged the earth and caused a flood? Why? To remedy a disease called sin, a disease that caused and still causes today conflict amongst men and women that results in the loss of innocence and innocent lives. Those innocent lives stand before the throne of God and cry out for Him to judge their demise justly and in accordance with His infinite wisdom and knowledge. How could Love overlook such things? How does the Love that you speak of address these things? Should God not judge the perpetrators of these crimes? For to not judge them would allow for a fault to be found in the part of His character that calls for all things to be and laid bare and open before him. This will not happen God will never be found at fault.

    God and God alone sees the results of all actions, He saw what mankind had chosen to become in the days of Noah. Each one of them choose to do what was right in their own eyes, none spare one and his family choose to believe God. So God in His love showed them mercy and in His long suffering hope He warned the human race for 120 years of pending judgement through the sign of a faithful man who built an ark. Slow to anger and longing that the creatures He created with their free wills would return to Him to be restored. Yet they choose to mock and ridicule the one that testified on God's behalf, they chose to buy and sell, to marry and be given in marriage, to sleep, eat, drink, war, love, create and destroy without heading the message. The message that told them that their actions would call for judgement against them in the suffering and pain inflicted against each other and against their creator. Jesus said it would be the same when He returned, that men and women would be carrying on acting to fulfil their own desires without paying heed to the warnings placed before them. Indeed He even questioned if when the son of man returns will He find faith in the earth?

    Love, true love calls for judgement. Calls for justice and calls for restoration. God knew that we could not achieve that which His son did by our own means, so He made for us an escape through the sacrifice of His only begotten son, Jesus. There is only one God and one mediator between God and man, that being Jesus Christ the holy lamb of God. None other has walked the face of this earth and withstood the onslaught of the evil one bar Jesus. None other has remained true to that which the Father created them for bar Jesus. None other has remained sinless and died sinless bar Jesus. None other could take on and become the very character and nature of the Father bar the one who was sinless and could enter into the presence of the Father as a sinless one. None other existed before time began bar Jesus, He, Jesus became Emmanuel, God with us and through Him being murdered as an innocent man, as the sacrificial lamb of God to take away the sins of human kind we can be restored to the Father through the Son. We can never, not one of us become all that He is and all that He was when He walked the face of our planet in the form of a man. To even consider that we could is an insult to all that God is, to consider that because God is love He will overlook our wickedness is an insult to His holiness and an insult to the innocent who have had their breath drawn from them, and all to often even before they even breath.

    God will judge, He will Judge in Love and justice. God being all knowing and wise knows that we as fallen man can not stand under His Holy judgement and so in Love He gave of Himself, His only son to take our place in sin and offer us salvation and restoration to the Father as a gift of grace, amazing grace.

    Allcare

    Tony

    http://www.inspired-tech.com/dovebar1.gif

  6. #6
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    Tony!!

    Welcome back, my friend!

    StarScream,

    Wow, nothing to say but bravo. I've said it many times before, yes, Jesus is the son of God. We all are. There is no such thing as pure good or pure evil, it's all in the perception. Thanks for putting it out so clearly. And welcome to Exosci, while I'm at it.

    What you're saying about thought holding us together, reminds me of a more eastern mode of thought. Is that one of your influences?

    As a point of curiosity, what religious path (if any) would you say you belong to? Merely curious.

    Blessings.

    [This message has been edited by MoonCat (edited August 02, 2000).]

  7. #7
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    Starscream,

    Uh, I haven't been taught anything like that whatsoever by Jesus or the Bible, so I have no idea where you're getting your info, but it's definately not from the christian faith. Maybe it's organized religious organizations that you're getting your info from??? Or could it be..........SATAN?!?!?!

    See guys, this is the religion of the coming antichrist. This is what Satan is very good at...taking the pretty part of the Bible as truth, and then ignoring the other half. It's bullshit, it's warped, it's a pipe-dream, and a misconstrued illogical one at that. Everything's perception huh? Yea, that's rich. All I can say is that you must have one hell of a flexible perception not to be able to recognize an inherent good and evil in this life. On second thought, you must be wearing rose colored glasses.

    And on to your misconceptions regarding christianity and God. Judgement is not a bad thing silly. What's with all of the doom and gloom? Are you scared???? Boo! Judgement is simply a perfect knowledge of how your intentions and respective works in life have affected this universe. What's so bad about that? Oh yea, you don't want to have to take responsibility for making any mistakes, or hurting anyone, or being selfish, or greedy, or jealous, or lustful, or proud, or lazy, RIGHT? Well, tough noogies, cause one of these days, you'll find out whether you want to or not. And then your little theory o' relativity isn't going to mean too much to you. There is nothing WRONG or BAD or PUNISHING about knowing the truth about life. It's the knowledge that we all seek...some of us just don't know where to look, you know, it must be the glasses getting in the way. So your contention is that God cannot love you unconditionally if you make mistakes, or if you do something wrong? You're the one placing limits on God. And that limit doesn't make any sense. Fess up, you don't believe that BS because it makes sense, you believe it because it makes you feel real warm and fuzzy. Can you say p-i-p-e-d-r-e-a-m?

    Oh, and I'm in a betting mood, any takers? I bet that Starscream has been abducted by aliens, or visited so to speak, and I bet that this "enlightenment", and I use that term very loosely here, comes from "aliens of light", or "beings of light", or masters or wisdom, or some such demonic shit. Who wants to lose some money? Well, Starscream?

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    You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

    [This message has been edited by Lori (edited August 02, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Lori (edited August 02, 2000).]

  8. #8
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    Lori,

    Y'know, just because someones' getting a different message than you are doesn't mean it's freakin' Satan. Unless, of course, YOU are perfect and incapable of getting anything wrong, and we both know that ain't the case.

    Don't you think it's just a little bit possible it's from another source? I'm awfully tired of hearing about Satan all the time. For pete's sake, most of the BS you hear about Satan is just twisted-up Pagan myths that the Church put out to villify the Pagan Horned God anyway.

    I'm just getting tired of anything that doesn't fit into Lori-land being a spawn of Satan. It gets old, it really really does. I like you, but you're starting to drive me a bit bonkers. Alien conspiracies, genetic manipulation, ad nauseum...Lori, you aren't wearing an aluminum foil hat, are you? 'Cause you know, that will keep them nasty buggers from reading your thoughts.

  9. #9
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    Starscream,

    Your thoughts seem to run very closely to the teachings of the Essenes (a jewish sect). If so do you also believe in the healing practices they teach, such as hydrotherapy. This is where they flush water up into the colon, via you no where, until only clean water comes out.

    Sorry, just had to mention that, I find it quite amusing.Immature? I know.

    But seriously,any conection to the Essenes?

  10. #10
    Let us not launch the boat ... Tiassa's Avatar
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    StarScream--

    Unless I'm reading you about 180-degrees incorrectly, Amen, as such. There is little, perhaps nothing, I could add to the scope of your topic post that wouldn't simply splinter off into irrelevance.

    On the other hand ... welcome to Exosci, and welcome to the Enemies List--you'd be amazed at how many of us are apparently led by ... SATAN.

    MoonCat--

    (actually, I was going to chide you for even attempting to meet Lori on her rhetoric, but suddenly I found my own self in the same moment. )

    Lori--

    Y'know, Hasidism chases that inner spark of divinity. Slightly different goals, but what I'm after is that the idea of God-within-human isn't particularly nuts. Generally, it takes an act of compassionate force, such as the arrest of Shabbetai Zevi, who is regarded as having betrayed Judaism when, in a wave of Messianic fever surrounding his ministry, he renounced his faith in favor of Islam at the stake of his life.

    Give me a cosmic break!
    Are you sure you're back from your last one?

    See guys, this is the religion of the coming antichrist. This is what Satan is very good at...taking the pretty part of the Bible as truth, and then ignoring the other half. It's bullshit, it's warped, it's a pipe-dream, and a misconstrued illogical one at that.
    Italic portion: As compared to what individual, imperfect person taking the Bible as the Word of God?

    Bold portion: Based on what? The opinions of the Christians who buy books like Death Penalty for Homosexuals?

    Rev. Peter J Peters advocates such a standard. Y'oughta try that website: http://www.identity.org/files/homo.html ... if you bother with it, consider that bit about, "May he and all Christian soldiers be mindful of the need to be obedient to our Great Commander and Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, and uphold His orders concerning homosexuality." And then read where he cites Jesus. He cites other people's letters describing homosexuality (Romans, Corinthians) and the Old Testament, from before Christ's ministry. The only words of Christ he cites are firewalls against criticizing such notions. Now ... of the people who support such ministries, hawking hate on TV and the internet--are these the opinions upon which you base your assertions of bullshit pipe-dreams? I mean, how intelligent are these people, really? Yet they seem to have a greater effect on those whose belief in God isn't allegedly Satanic.

    Y'might want to take a look at how far off the handle you've flown; it might be a single-flight record.

    From Toad the Wet Sprocket:

    i feel my body weakened by the years
    as people turn to gods of cruel design
    is it that they fear the pain of death
    or could it be they fear the joy of life

    pray your gods who rule you by your fear
    for they are quick and ruthless punishers
    or lay upon my altar now your love
    i fear my day is done
    there are armies moving on
    be quick, my love
    'nuff said. But yeah, y'might want to consider how many boasts you're making on God's behalf, and consider whether you know that you're right, and that you have that right to speak on God's behalf, or whether you say those things because, as you put it, "it makes you feel real warm and fuzzy"?

    I mean, really, it's like you're shouting, "My dad can beat up your dad!" Who says the ol' man really wants to beat anyone up? Your warm fuzzy comes from plucking Jesus' beard.

    Name your God and bleed the freak ... (Alice in Chains)

    So long as Satan has as much power as you give him, God's plan is completely arbitrary.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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    We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

    [This message has been edited by tiassa (edited August 02, 2000).]

  11. #11
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    Lori,

    Jesus was a God-man. The product of God, our Father, and a human woman. There is no other like Him, nor will there be.
    The divinity of Jesus was determined by the Church Fathers at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Once these MEN decreed that Jesus was the son of God, to believe otherwise and to express such belief was heresy - and you know what they did to heretics, don't you? Forgive me if I take Starscream's version of God over yours - it makes a lot more sense to me than the Christian dogma that has been so forcefully handed down to us by the Catholic Church over the centuries. (Ever wonder why the "truth" needed the threat of death behind it?)

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    An ye harm none, do what ye will.

  12. #12
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    The "truth" doesn't need the threat of death behind it. This threat wasn't made becuase people rejected the divinity of Jesus, it was becuase they threatened the stronghold and the greed of the Catholic church. If it was purely based on whether or not Jesus was God then they wouldn't have threatened the life of Martin Luther.

    Tiassa,

    Because I am a believer does not make this person an "enemy" to me, merely someone holding a different opinion, whether I think that person right or wrong is irelevant and a person doesn't need to be lead by Satan to commit a wrong, all of us are quite capable of that on our own.

    [This message has been edited by Francis Ritchie (edited August 02, 2000).]

  13. #13
    Let us not launch the boat ... Tiassa's Avatar
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    Francis--

    Truer words ... it's a stretch. On any given day I agree with you wholeheartedly, and at the present moment I do. I will readily admit, though, that I did, quite obviously, feel the need to do a little flying off the handle of my own.

    thanx,
    Tiassa
    ------------------
    We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

    [This message has been edited by tiassa (edited August 02, 2000).]

  14. #14
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    Exclamation

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a flippin' minute here. I'm semi-confused, which I'm sure that wouldn't surprise Tiassa one bit. Did you all forget that I was a Christian, and believe what it says in the Bible? Why are you all dissing me because I believe that Satan exists, and I believe what it says about him in the Word? Give me a good reason not to, and I'll consider it, but it's not like I haven't put any thought into this ok? And it's also not like the Bible doesn't do a perfect job of describing the teachings and the methods and the goal of Satan. You know, MC, Searcher, Starscream, I'm really sorry that it hurts your feelings or whatever that I think that the beings that you communicate with are demons. Hell, I don't think...I KNOW FOR SURE. Do you think that I dislike you or think you're bad people or think you're stupid or evil or something? I wish that you wouldn't allow your misconceptions and prejudices regarding christians and christianity cloud your mind so much. I've been out here talking to you for a good long time now, and you don't even have an excuse to accuse me of some of the ridiculous assumptions that you have. I know that Satan exists ok? What do you want me to do? Lie to you just to make you feel good? Can't I offer my opinion up here? It's not a forum anymore, what? Have you ever considered my point of view here? I love you guys out here a lot. All of you. You seem like really nice people, and I would like to consider us friends of some sort. And you know what I believe to be true about who it is that you're getting enlightenment from. How do you think that makes me feel, knowing what I know about Satan and his purpose? Now do I come out here and poop all over your beliefs, and tell you how sick and tired I am of you talking about your fluffy little goddess? No, I don't. I have a little more respect than that. And you know, what's with this "Lori-land" bullshit? Try the Bible ok? I'm not making this shit up for crying out loud!!!!! Damn! F you and your f'ing foil hat, that really pisses me off. Go ahead and act like I haven't taken my spiritual path seriously if you want to, but it's not true, and it's not nice. I don't accuse you of "making up" your spiritual beliefs in your head for funsies do I? No, I don't.

    Tiassa,

    "Death Penalty for Homosexuals" huh? Well you know, I've been so damn good lately, with not cussing and all, but today, in light of the rest of your pissy attitudes, I'm sayin'....fuck you. And that's all I'm sayin' to that bullshit.

    And, who is the enemy? You'd better take that back. Don't be putting words in my mouth, misrepresenting me you know, just because you don't understand jack about what I think. Satan is the enemy. My "Well hello Satan"? Duh, that was supposed to be funny. I don't think Starscream is Satan, you silly, silly man you. Starscream is a friend, not an enemy. And what is with the "my dad can beat up your dad" thing? You're really grasping....probably should have just said nothing if that's all you could come up with. I'm not giving Satan power just because I know his game...I'm exposing him for who he is. So shoot me.

    ------------------
    You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

    [This message has been edited by Lori (edited August 03, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Lori (edited August 03, 2000).]

  15. #15
    Let us not launch the boat ... Tiassa's Avatar
    Posts
    30,682

    Cool

    Lori--

    A couple of quick points, to start:

    Did you all forget that I was a Christian, and believe what it says in the Bible? Why are you all dissing me because I believe that Satan exists, and I believe what it says about him in the Word? Give me a good reason not to, and I'll consider it, but it's not like I haven't put any thought into this ok?
    * No, we didn't forget.
    * No, I, at least, am being difficult on the issue because it's your best excuse for not giving deeper thought to other people's opinions, conclusions, sentiments, ad infinitum, when they confound, contradict, or confuse your own perspective on your own ideas. For all the attributing to Satan you, or other Christian voices do, I've never seen, heard, or been given the notion that a cosmology exists to demonstrate that such a powerful Satan serves any other purpose but a scapegoat.
    * The best reason I can think of to discount the Devil and its power is that the Devil is extraneous to the formula: the Devil has no purpose in the Universe.

    And it's also not like the Bible doesn't do a perfect job of describing the teachings and the methods and the goal of Satan.
    Really? Where? A perfect job of describing those attributes of Satan? (Remember the difference between "a satan" and "Satan". Thus, most of the Old Testament is out, imho, but don't let that stop you. )

    I know that Satan exists ok? What do you want me to do? Lie to you just to make you feel good? Can't I offer my opinion up here? It's not a forum anymore, what? Have you ever considered my point of view here?
    * What I would ask, had I my druthers, is that your first reaction to something which confuses or contradicts your principles not be to start warding off Devils. I would further ask that you not dismiss people's academic or spiritual credibility by claiming them led by the Devil. Consider what happens when I describe something as "negro". Actually, there's a number of nations in the world where that's the word. But when I put it into an American context, with as much anti-African racism as has existed here, it becomes "Negro", bearing all of the negative sentiment we're aware of. Will Satan be redeemed? He is, I might remind, the eternal enemy of your theology, according to that theology. On the one hand, stop calling people what you seem to hate the most. You don't hate? Then maybe there's a deeper process at work here: you attribute devilish attributes to people because you don't understand them, and can give yourself a reason to fear, and thus oppose them.

    * I think lying to make us all feel good is only an conversion of what you do now: lie to yourself to make yourself feel good. No matter how you cut it, whatever evil you see in the world, whatever evil you suffer in the world, it is as your own God wants it, period.

    * And of course you can offer your opinion here; I would hope you're not resorting to Pashley's lament.

    * And yes, some of us have considered these aspects of your point of view many, many times. It still reads like your opinion, to me, and thus your condemnations of StarScream seem to bear the opinion-generated force of negative regard.

    How do you think that makes me feel, knowing what I know about Satan and his purpose?
    Jesus and Satan, as such, might well drink together; after all, do not mortal enemies entertain one another? At any rate, they're both cracking up about that, as well as the bartender and the piano man.

    You seem to know a larger portion of the ineffable than the rest of the world. Can you make it effable?

    Now do I come out here and poop all over your beliefs, and tell you how sick and tired I am of you talking about your fluffy little goddess? No, I don't. I have a little more respect than that.


    I might get back to that when I stop laughing.

    Go ahead and act like I haven't taken my spiritual path seriously if you want to, but it's not true, and it's not nice.
    Lori, I'm quite sure you take your spiritual path seriously. But stop disrespecting other people's paths! Geemeneezers, how serious of regard are you giving other people when your first, primary, and only argument is that they are, or are possessed by, or are influenced, led, or enslaved by Satan? What, did God make people so that they're completely incapable of independent thought? I don't think so, especially since it's 2000 years gone by since the Wise Son and we still see people jockeying for elbow room. If humans weren't capable of independent thought, all of this would have been resolved a long time ago: we would have evolved right out of the food chain.

    I don't accuse you of "making up" your spiritual beliefs in your head for funsies do I?
    No, you just tell everybody that your mortal enemy is their slavemaster.

    A note on your 8/2 post to StarScream; the longer post:

    See guys, this is the religion of the coming antichrist. This is what Satan is very good at...taking the pretty part of the Bible as truth, and then ignoring the other half.
    See, Lori, this kind of theology is the kind that's just made up by individuals to give them an excuse to exercise arbitrary, often discriminatory, generally fanciful authority .... See what I mean? It kind of reads the same, doesn't it?

    thanx,
    Tiassa

    ------------------
    We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

  16. #16
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    400

    Post

    Lori,

    "Now do I come out here and poop all over your beliefs..."

    Um, lesse, from that very same post...

    "..think that the beings that you communicate with are demons. Hell, I don't think...I KNOW FOR SURE. "

    I dunno 'bout you, but if it looks like poop, and it smells like poop...

    I'm at work, so no time at the moment, but Lori, I'm coming back to this one. Let me just say for now that your frustration with my "foil hat" comment is probably about equal to my frustration with your incessant "you worship a demon" comments. Difference is mine was a joke, yours is not.


  17. #17

    Question

    StarScream,
    your ideas and tone sound remarkably like my old mate's Keni St George who used to go to the Wimbledon Temple, you're not he are you?

    Coss

  18. #18
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    651

    Post

    Lori,

    As for your question about whether or not you "poop" on other people's beliefs, I submit the following webpage address as evidence:
    http://www.exosci.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000138-2.html

    where you made the following statement concerning Flash's beliefs at the time:

    Now I'm truly sorry, really, that this is such a bitter pill. I'm sorry that my beliefs just poop all over all of this "new-found light". But hey, what can I say? I'm going to be an octopus.
    I definitely think this is "pooping".

    ------------------
    An ye harm none, do what ye will.

  19. #19
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    52

    Post

    Lori,

    I love your zealousness, but I have one request, could you tone down your language please? We're called to lead by example, an angry tongue doesn't do this.

    But be assured, I'm not trying to get at you, I love the stand you take.

  20. #20
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    651

    Post

    Lori,

    Do you recall making the following promise?

    Ok, I'm making a promise right now that I won't cuss on this board ever again.
    If you need to refresh your memory, you can review the entire conversation at the following webpage address:

    http://www.exosci.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000138-3.html

    ------------------
    An ye harm none, do what ye will.

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