People often wonder how a loveing ang good God coud allow the horrific atrocities of 9/11 and Auschwitz, Buchenwald and all the other horrors such as eathquakes etc etc. Well it is a very fair question. If we just die and thats it then what is the point of all this. I know they say that the ones who accept Christ go to heaven and those who don't don't. But isn't that the sign of a very mean god? He gives us an offer we cannot refuse a bit like the Mafia. These are my own feelings about the subject by the way. All this however, I believe, makes complete sense if our consciousness survives the death of the physical body and after a time takes on another body to complete a purpose. Trouble is we often haven't a clue what that purpose is. All the above does not comfort someone whose loved one has died, they miss their loved one terribly but in th grand sceme of things it makes some sense even though we may not be able to comprehend this. We must have been created by something, all religion aside. How could such an incredibly diverse world with such unbelievable comlexity have just evoved. I invite feedback on this subject from believers and non believers. All the best Rex Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Mmmmm... If we forget all about our purpose, what sense does it make to "come back"? Please elaborate. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hi Sparkle, I'm afraid I do not know the answer to this. It has been said by many people who are invoved in this field such as Spiritualists, Mediums and the like that we we have purpose to our life. It could something as simple as living it to the best of our ability and haveing compassion for our fellow men and women. Have you ever read Raymond Moody's book "Life after Life"? It has a great deal about this kind of thing in it? Myself, I don't know why our purpose in life is not made clear to us. Maybe it is but we are just not listening. Rex Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
first of all, how can you compare 9/11 to auschwitz? at least most of the people in 9/11 who were killed led good lives and died quickly, and besides only what, 3000 people were killed in it? well every week 10's of thousands more die of starvation and live shit lives and whoever said god was good or loving, in the old testament he is cruel and ruthless I believe that when you die, you go into darkness, nothingness, forever, just like it was before we were born.
I believe that there has to be somewhere where our consciouness goes, or somewhere where our mind, whatever a mind may be, goes. Think about it. If our mind is not our brain, not our body, if our mind is in another realm, and only somewhat attached to our bodies, then how can it die? What if our minds just withdraw into this lonely place, where they are alone to sit and ponder things for eternity? And after time, the life of the body they were in dullens, and they totally forget what it is like to be on Earth. What does that mind think about? Of course, if this is true, then cherish life as it is now, for our bodies are the sole thing through which we can contact other minds, and that is the purpose of life, to interact. I love thinking about this...throw some more good questions my way. I'm sure I can get you all to the point where you fear dying, God or no God.
DarkEyed- Reduce the brain to electrical impulses, neurons and all that neurobabble and the "mind" comes out as a concept, nothing shows that it can exist outside of brain activity. The mind is nothing without the brain. Death of the brain equals the death of the "mind" You can call it pessimistic, I call it realistic. This is also how I believe it will be. Hard to accept?.....maybe, but I feel the evidence points in this grim direction.
Who are you to reduce the mind to the brain? Honestly, when the debate has been going on for centuries?
Sorry, I can only give my insights. No need to get all pissy. Thing is, there is absolutely no evidence or reason to suspect that the mind can flourish without the brain. The debate has gone on for centuries because neuroscience was not up to par untill very recently. As always, there are people saying that the mind can exist outside the brain, but there is nothing to show that this claim is valid. Dont just make it seem like im the one with the grandiose claim, if you feel strongly about your idea then present it in a convincing manner.
Haha...my idea is just a joke. I wasn't really being serious. I was simply thinking, maybe... Anyway, my idea is founded in philosophy of mind. Since I am a philosophy student. I know dualism is debunked, but the whole idea isn't to be thrown out the window. I wasn't being pissy, I just was asking....tell me how you can say that the mind is the brain? Since there is no evidence of that. The mind is elusive.
"What is best of all is completely beyond you. Not to be. To be nothing. But the next best thing for you--is to die soon." I'm talking to someone about this via instant messanger right now. Any afterlife would eventually make you go nuts. That's why nonexistence is the only true perfection, the only true heaven.
I look at the brain as being purely physical. I have no reasons to believe that the mind could somehow be seperated from the brain. Hell, they could be seperate for all I know, I just havent heard any good reasons/evidence to suggest that. Everything in my intution and common sense thinking say that the mind is a concept. That it needs the brain to survive. The "mind" to me, is simply a result of our advanced consciencousness.
mmmmm, I can apriciate these views positive and negative, but to just say we are a body and a brain seems too simplistic. How is it posible to store every single memory in just a finite brain and how can the unbelievable comlexity of the human body just be explained away by evolution from monkies. Why haven't more monkies evolved into humans? Also humans and other animals breah oxygen and breath out carbon dixide but plants do the exact opposite so that we depend on each other. And what about the near death experiences, they all seem to have the same pattern, and the people who can recall past lives under hypnosis. Rex
what about the mind without the body? without the input of external stimulus? people who lose a limb often find that they have a "phantom limb", where the body has re-mapped a different part of their body to be the new replacement "limb" for sensory purposes. is this out of desire? or nessesity?
Actually, we have no evidence to support our believing that this physical world is real. We have evidence, dreams, to believe that this could all be a dream. Or that we could be being deceived. Think of the matrix. I mean, stupid analogy, but Descartes tried to define knowledge. And he ended up realizing that all we really can be sure of is that I (the person thinking, Descartes in his case) exist as a thinker. Dreams deceive our senses. Life could be the very same thing.
Life could be a deception of our senses? Whatever happened to the soul? Perhaps the mind cannot live without the brain but in myriad types of religions the soul exists forever. What is the soul, well I'll leave that one to you fellow forumners. An afterlife, a purpose, a God? Difficult questions and ones that the man may never find an answer to. Seems to me though that there all really one question, that life is one question. The answer to this would solve everything, would raise the world up in complete interconnectedness, or throw this world into chaos (or peace as some may describe it) of nothingness. That question is of course, a God? Firstly, the first step to answering such a question would be for a definition of God. I would enjoy hearing some definitions of God, couldn't the human creature decide on one word that could sum up God. Yet the human mind is finite, God's infinite, so we couldn't possibly comprehend really anything about Him. I am a Christian and shall not, never, hide it. My beliefs allows for one to be a humble monk and at the same time a fierce warrior. It allows for man to hate and to love, to doubt and to search. My religion allows for honor, glory and above all a purpose to this life. Some meaning for this creature that has named himself, many have found contradictions to the Holy Bible (these being only in words), however, the meaning shall never be contradicted, of hope and love, of death and desperation. Where a God seems for an instint to doubt himself, and trys to correct the world he has created, even at times, inflict terrible wrath upon non-believers, some have argued that without chaos we wouldn't grow. With that statement I am well satisfied. Is the human creature not thrusted into chaos? Is not the Christian God above chaos? Yet in creating a creature of chaos could not God use this creature for growth as well? The hour is late, the morn has come so I bid you all a goodnight...
Dear Rambo, I can compare Auschwitz with 9/11 becould an unaccepable number of people were murdered for no reason that hatred. The diference is only in the number of people killed. Admidadly the Nazis were attempting Genocide but the Muslems weren't.. or were they? I bet they would like to eliminate all nonmuslems. It dousn't seem to mater to them that America Britain and Australia are home to many Moslems who enjoy or respective ways of life all the best Rex Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'm going to start off my first post in this forum by making a few enemies. There is ample scientific evidence that this is possible. It's been proven by scientists performing experiments in labs and ivy league colleges in america and europe for over a hundred years now. It's scientific fact, it's been proven, all you have to do is know where to look to find the research, because although science supports it, most scientists do not. Mostly because of a religio-cultural bias. Consciousness survives, it was proved a long time ago, but because of most peoples' inability to accept the research of their predicessor, they need to prove it all over again. There are hundreds of books, thousands of scientific dissertations, published articles, etc on the subject. More information than one would be able to read in tehir lifetime, yet people still go around forming their own personal opinions about something that is fact, that adheres to laws of nature and physics, laws that we may not be fully knowledgable of, but laws all the same. People give no regard to what has already been done in the field, they are ignorant to it. If someone said that they feel that gravity didn't exist, that the world was actually flat and there was no evidence to support any theory saying otherwise, what would say to that person? What would you think of that person? And nowadays, with so many people putting this bullshit metaphysical spin on the whole scenario, there really exists no modern acurate portrayal of any of this information. Except for the papers published by scientists at the dozens of colleges and universities performing studies as we speak. So it's not like anybody should really be blamed for being ignorant on the subject, the best information is so hard to find, you have to be pretty adept at searching for it. Anyway, the point is, survival of consciousness was proven scientifically over a hundred years ago, and has since been re-proven countless times. It's only our mis-understanding of the faculties involved that keep us from accepting this research, because we know it exists, we just don't know how. And because we can't figure out how, yet, people don't want to accept it as real. About the quote above, Einstein and his colleagues' research into the make up of energy expressed that energy does not ever disappear. All the energy in your brain performing all the functions that keeps you alive, still exists permanently after your body is dead. It is common knowledge among the intellectual community that your mind is seperate from your brain.
Halcyon- Well, I see the point you are trying to make and its interesting. Now let me try to explain my thinking........Energy is neither created nor destroyed, yes. But the energy being seperated from the body does not constitute the mind in my opinion. I believe the brain uses the energy to create the "mind" and once brain death occurs, the energy will not be used by the body anymore and will leave to be eventually consumed by something else. The energy used by the brain that allows for the various brain processes does not carry unique experiences away with it now does it? Energy without the brain does not equal mind. It is energy like any other energy, it was used for consciousness, but once death occured, it left and will take on another role.
river-wind- The phantom limb syndrome occurs because the neural networks that allowed that limb to feel sensations before the amputation, are still intact and primed to respond; if a random signal comes in that is close to the signal that used to indicate cause for pain, the network fires and interprets the stimulus as real pain. The brain is the main control center for the body. By removing a limb, you still have the neural networks intact. I believe the mind could flourish without the body, but of course it would need a supply of oxygen and thats where the body comes into play. Your body is a system that relies on other parts to operate. Your brain relies on bodily functions to work, and vice versa.
When you die there is nothing. Its like never being born. There is no special energy that leaves .The energy we get is from food we eat and the oxygen we breath .The people that we are is simply memories and experiences. At death these thoughts,experiences, and Ideas just die with the body and you dont even know your dead.
