05-24-03, 09:31 PM #321
i see no anomalies or contradictions with old-world stories and the bible; what we don't know we just don't. i stick with what i know. not all the bibles doors are opened to me but i have enough understanding to state a case- simply from the bible- that jesus christ truly is god. i can also debate the world on the bible's terms, too.
nice story about joe; nice story about god, too.
Last edited by firingseeds; 05-24-03 at 09:43 PM.
05-24-03, 09:50 PM #322
it's nice that you can state a case based off the bible, but i was just wondering, have you ever questioned your religion? i think the best way to use this conscious thought that "god" allowed us to have is to use it to its fullest extent. not necessarily to debase religion but rather to form our own opinions by questioning everything we think we know, then trying to find our own answers to them.
05-24-03, 10:33 PM #323
hi, nice to see ya.
as far as religion goes i am quite open: i can take it or leave it. it, in the end, has got nothing, and everything- depending on where ya feet are placed-to do with anything.
exactly my point: i have had this information for years. i benefitted in my own sense of purpose and direction, but is it solely for my benefit? self fulfillment is aquired in many ways, and sometimes in relationships- like: i found my soulmate etc. this is god's creation today, as at anytime, just as u have stated.
the young guys at work, i don't dictate to on how to live their lives, but if i can bring a smile or a strength of purpose, or resourcefulness, to a young guy, then i'm ok with that. we do communicate thru the heart as well as face to face, ya know; and some people happen to be deeper, or more aware than others; not that thats a prequisite to anything.
hope that helps
and i never discuss religion at work. (a good wordly rule- otherwise no work would get done - everyone would be killing each other ).
05-24-03, 10:37 PM #324
Hey seeds, I won't argue that the Bible is an amazing book. If nothing else, many of the stories in it have helped people in some incredible ways. Alchohalics and drug addicts have used it's teachings to salvage their lives. My brother is one of them, as his addiction to cocaine was something we thought was unbeatable. Until he found God, that is.
And that is a very generic example, because millions of people have done exactly the same thing. So I will not bash the Bible itself, though some of the stories in it are very questionable; but those I equate to the lying minds of evil, power hungry men.
My mother loves Jesus, and God, and prays and finds happiness in doing so, and it's beautiful. To truly have a belief like that is so cool that I wish I could find the same thing. And believe me, I've tried, it's just that my way of thinking prevents me from doing so. I cannot blindly follow, when so many questions linger about just what the hell went on during Biblical times.
I mean, I was an alter boy, I went to a Catholic school, I attended church regularly, I sang the hyms and read the Good Book. Man, I was searching for God! But what turned me off to it was the ways people have twisted Christianity (And any other religion, for that matter) into a way to supress, humiliate, and even use it as a reason to go to war. Look at the middle east! That's all over beliefs, man. Who's god is better and the sort. Then you look at the crimes against humanity that Christians have committed, like the Inquisition and the Crusades. Things like that are wrong. And after seeing how ugly man can make religion, I really studied the teachings themselves, and then saw how full of holes it is. How it uses tricks to get people to believe, like one Bible verse that says "Do not rely on your logic; simply rely on God." Now, to me, that sounds like a conman who just stole your money but told you to believe that he didn't simply on his words. "Don't believe your eyes; only believe what I said."
Is there a reason for that verse? Sure there is. It's written becuase if man were to really look into religion and the gods, they would find it to be a sham. The author of that book is covering his tracks right there. The evidence is right in front of you, but you had better not believe it
On the topic of wrong and right, you can actually ask me what makes slavery wrong? Well, the teachings of God tell us that we, as men, can decide what is wrong and right, as we were kicked out of the Garden of Eden for biting the apple which gave us that awareness, so of course we know that slavery is wrong. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else. We have that power, and you cannot argue it, because the Bible says we do. You don't think it's inhumane? What if a group of people came and took you from your home, took you to a land where nobody spoke your language, and put you to work in cotton fields? How would you feel? Wouldn't you call it inhumane? Yes you would.
Seeds, I won't bash your faith, becuase I don't think the raw ideas of it are anything but good. The stories of Jesus are amazing and beautiful, as he helped the poor and underprivelage and heals the sick. His stories are a great set of guidlines to follow in your life! I think the Bible, in it's origional form, may have been a life manual offered by people who knew how to live an optimum life. Do not kill, do not steal, do not sleep with your neighbor's wife...these are things that will help you stay alive and happy, but not laws! Think about how much happier people would be if they all followed those guidelines! But the trouble begins when you start taking away those very things that those guidlines were set up to protect.
Stripping away of self, as you put it, is a terrible way to live life. People of faith do not credit themselves with anything, and all the good they do is, of course, credited to God. It suppresses minds and inhibits progress. Technology today was not built by the faithful; it was built by those who seek knowledge outside the teachings, though maybe not in spite of it. If the world followed what the Bible teaches, we would not be having this discussion right now, because an internet would not exist, and neither would our computers.
Just a few thoughts, seeds.
05-24-03, 11:14 PM #325
yeah, nice, enjoyed that jdawg.
yes, correct; man cannot emulate god. god to me is my purpose to life, i have no other; but i can't apply that teaching on to anyone else. as u state, we are all individuals. it's the bad things as well as the good that gives us our strengths, our depth of feelings, and values soforth. don't discredit all that u have disliked, because as an individual, u stand in your own right. if i followed the teachings of the church, i wouldn't be able to state that, but thru the bible, i can. the basis to the bible is that god is god, not man. we are told quite clearly that god has noone to answer to but himself. if man wants to raise himself above that simple statement, then he does so at his own risk, or peril. and why would he? pride, stupidity, vanity, greed, covetousness, intolerance, u name it- arn't most of the world's cruelties appied on these manful emotions.
god's world is a garden, away and above, from the jungle that exists.
if u looked at the question of slavery more deeply u would find cultures that are dominated by other cultures, their lands and ways of life ripped from them and replaced with another habitat, alien to what they have once known (it comes under the simple law of usery), but they themselves have only become beggars, drunks, outcasts, and paupers in their own lands. and even tho the official yoke of slavery wasn't placed over their heads, they are slaves to the enviroment that displaced them.
eskimo's once had a natural way of life, most are now confined to townships and alchohol, their way of life destroyed.
those bible words u told me are not repressive, but the opening of our eyes, for very few of us can open our eyes to our own abilities, to the extent they can be opened.
god is a god of justice and each of us are accountable for our actions.
cheers. enjoyed your post- very much. thanks
05-24-03, 11:44 PM #326
yes, i agree with u about the world and religious intolerance. without the world's input, where would we be, indeed! i love the world, but can also see room for improvement- gods way and not man's. and this will happen in god's time and place of choosing. there is a reason for all this. the end result will be that jesus christ will one day return to this earth, keep the good, and chuck out everything that is worthless- for it does belong to him, and not his "master," man. now what's so scary about that?
05-25-03, 03:15 AM #327
the end result will be that jesus christ will one day return to this earth, keep the good, and chuck out everything that is worthless
05-25-03, 05:39 AM #328
yeah, i understand what ya saying, that's why it's important to realize that jesus- who lived on earth as a man- will be the only judge of mankind, as god has committed all judgement to his son. now, if i was to say that the heart of man is the true nature of the soul, the church could possibly object, but under the auspices of the bible- god's word- i believe i can make that statement.
someone once told me that if someone had an upbringing similiar to the one u have described then u should be very thankful. perhaps some christians didn't have the advantage of that sort of upbringing, but they have tried to commit their lives to jesus christ. some pay tithings, some don't, some are mature, some arn't, some are ultra- religious, some arn't, some are gossips, some arn't, some are hypocrites, some arn't, some are loving and kind, some arn't, some are wise, some arn't, and soforth.
my advice to u is, if u believe in your own self-righteousness, then don't give it up, and don't change for nobody.** if, at any time in ya life, ya have any doubts, then run off and get baptized. but, nah, i was serious, if u can stand on your own merits, then please do so.
**(ya mightn't get to heaven, but ya won't go to hell -sorry, i had to throw that one in).
there is an awful lot of beauty in the world. man has progressed a long way since the beginning, or whenever that was. also, there is an awful lot of love in the world, and without the church, i somehow think we would still be pretty primitive. at least we know that somewhere, sometime, standards are being maintained.
"just to be nice" sounds pretty good to me
05-25-03, 06:48 AM #329
jesus is god.
thanks, folks, friends:
i reckon this thread is officially completed. a good case has been presented claiming jesus' right to be god and now it is all up to the jury
snake your problem is with god, not me.
just a summary from the bible from the lord jesus christ himself:
when the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory;
and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a sheperd divideth his sheep from the goats:
and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. matthew 25:31-33
in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit
05-25-03, 07:04 AM #330who holds the higher vantage point- the questionnaire or the answerer? if u wern't gaining something u would not continue asking. as the recipient to the field of questions i find it all rather one-sided.
I am the prime minister of England. I believe we should not start using the euro, but should keep the pound. I still ask the public what they think, not because i need to 'accept' what they think or share their belief, but because hearing other peoples opinions is interesting.
I give you questions to search deeper into the validity of your claims. The simple fact you cannot answer them, instead just wasting time with worthless shit like this, lowers the credibility. I have asked many a question. I have shown texts going against the belief in god/jesus/holy fairy being one and the same. I have shown many texts to show jesus was not a god, at the most a prophet of god, like melchizedek who holds/held the same rank status. I have further pointed out how jesus does the exact opposite of what god always did. Etc etc.
You have answered none of this, instead just saying "jesus IS god, repent"
This leads to the conclusion that you cannot answer, instead focusing your attention on the trivial issues. If that's all you can manage, fair enough. Come talk to me when you're more able.
i understand where u are coming from but it is u who is on the outside looking in and not vice versa. u havn't been gracious enough to accept that.
u are welcome to everything u want to believe or not believe, and i will continue to fight anyone who slanders my lord and my god, as u have. that simple.
as a non- believer, do u really think i have a problem with that. no, but u are ignoring the simple fact that u have a problem with it.
and what about the little kids that swear by jesus? what are u offering? ohh, yeah... my eagles.
the simple fact is, snake, that jesus offers eternal life
the eagles are but a moment.
made me laugh a coupl'a times, tho. try a bit more humour, do ya good.
05-25-03, 07:08 AM #331snake your problem is with god, not me.
Furthermore: Your problem is with yourself, not god.
05-25-03, 07:47 AM #332
05-25-03, 08:41 AM #333
Did you all notice how Firingseeds just up and decided that the thread was closed? Hahahahahahaha! Talk about ignorant! I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, pose questions to him, NOT slander his god (I've even used used capital G's, L's and H's), yet his answers aren't answers! He rambles and contradicts himself and speaks cryptically, quoting the Bible and such.
Seeds...Those. Aren't. Answers.
His case was not made, though we really can't discount god based on this douche's argument, becuase he's a poor example of a Christian. He knows nothing about the history of the world or even the history of his own religion! When I told him about the "Story of Joe" he simply said "yeah, nice story." rather than admitting "Well, yeah, that's kinda messed up." He's ignorant, his points aren't points at all, and as far as I'm concerned, he lost this argument.
It's up to the jury to decide, ay Seeds?
Verdict: Firingseeds is guilty of being a moron. Case closed.
05-25-03, 11:30 AM #334
People of all religions tend to forsake the word of god and uphold the words of men. The Jews and the Muslims uphold the Mishnah (Hadith) and Gemarrah (Sunna), while the Christians uphold a trinity invented by the Nicene Conference, 325 years after Jesus.
05-25-03, 02:15 PM #335
05-26-03, 12:51 AM #336
i am god!! (in the eastern philosophy type way!)
anyways... who ever said jesus was god is wrong!! insted of me proving myself right i'd like to see you prove me wrong!!!
fools! you cant do it can you? you see its just like the time cube! god is ignorance! you cant disprove the time cube!!!!!!!!!!!!
05-26-03, 01:01 AM #337
05-26-03, 06:03 AM #338
well, that stuff's beyond my comprehension. i guess that shows u something? i like the simplicity of the sun rising each day in the east and then setting again in the west. it works for me: but good luck!
have a good one.
05-26-03, 06:16 AM #339
i once heard this story: if u don't know jesus, u pray to god: and if u don't know god, u pray thru jesus; and if u don't know either of them, u pray with the holy spirit.
and if u don't know that start running!
that's my version anyway.
don't let me see ya standards slip either, i like those G's, H's and L's.
05-26-03, 01:20 PM #340