Lets try another one

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Kython13, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. Kython13 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    52
    Go here

    Dare I ask for comments?

    While I know the way it is written is biased and borderline derogatory (because of the broad generalizations about atheists) the arguments still bear discussion.
     
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  3. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    That is an argument from consequences:

    1) I find it disquieting to consider that life is a purposeless chemcial accident.

    2) I can't handle thinking this because I'm a pussy.

    3) God exists.


    Purpose can not be assigned by an external thing.

    This only provides you with purpose if you think that God's assignment of purpose to you is valuable. If you think that God's purpose for you is pointless then you are now purposeless. Purpose comes from within, because you value one state above another. Purpose is a value and values don't have justification: it is the point at which you stop asking "why should I do this/care about this/ bother about this?".
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2003
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  5. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    God "made" those chemicals, too.. so, relax...
     
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  7. mqnania Registered Member

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    Umm...good point...but I think that god did create everything, so yeah...(if that's what this is about, I didn't go to the site, I only have a little time left on the comp.)
     
  8. Q25 Registered Senior Member

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    593
    if god created everything,who created god?
     
  9. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Earth(aka my god) created "god" because it created the imagination of man.
     
  10. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    The universe exists.... That is, due to the properties of matter and energy, life necessarily arose since we exist.
    Going good so far.

    Therefore, Human existence, thoughts, feelings, etc., are merely the end result of the inherent universal laws and principles of matter, energy flow, chemical reaction, etc. that has resulted in life.
    Question: From an atheistic point of view, what purpose does Mankind have for existence?

    Ad the problems begin. The same could be asked of our existence if we were created by God. For that matter, what purpose does God have for existence?

    Since the laws of the universe are immutable and cannot be violated, any reason given by an atheist for claiming purpose in existence can be properly attributed to be the result of chemical reactions in his/her brain leading him to say he has purpose.

    Using the same method, any reason given by a theist for claiming purpose in existence can be attributed to be the result of God's design.

    He is guided and lead by these Laws and react, plot, hope, and will only in agreement with these Laws.

    People are not guided by the laws of the universe... they just can't break them. (assuming they are right)

    If the atheist states that the natural laws are not exhaustively known and that they can produce truly "free-will" creatures,
    Then he is making his point based upon what we do not know about the natural laws and stating that since we do not know what they can do, therefore, I am free to not be bound by the natural laws. Then it is, essentially, an argument from silence.

    It is the same type of argument theists use when they say that it is impossible to understand God's will.

    Therefore, from the atheist perspective, he is not independent, autonomous, nor does he possess a free will.

    This is the same in soem Christian perspectives.

    Therefore, the Concept of "Having a Purpose" becomes meaningless because The atheist has no purpose beyond the programming inherent in himself.

    It also becomes meaningless with an omnipotent God who designed you to do whatever it is you do.

    Therefore, he has no independence and no free will.

    ditto

    If he claims he is thinking in harmony with the limitations imposed by Natural Laws and that the sum of his evolution is greater than those individual Natural Laws, then he has again violated principle 5 above.

    Principle 5 is bunk anyhow.Most theists would agree that the whole can be more then the sum of it's parts. If this is true free will or not doesn't really matter... because we think we have it either way.

    If life only develops in harmony with the laws then it is restricted to those laws and cannot exceed them.

    Well they could, but the laws would then be redefined to show the true reality. Remember that people once thought the world was flat.

    Also, it can still be said that the atheist claim of independence is nothing more than the chemical reactions in his brain.

    And you are only doing what God put you here for. Also, chemical reactions are not as consistent as the author seems to think. There is a bit of randomness in them.

    If the atheist says he has purpose not derived from or that is beyond the mere derivation of life from the original, inherent natural Laws, then....

    I doubt an atheist would say that... atleast one who thought about it first.

    If the supernatural exists, then it is certainly possible that God exists.

    It is also possible that faries and the toothfairy exist. The majority of atheists (on the board atleast) seem to think that there is always a chance... it's just small.

    The atheist is denying the principles from which evolution is derived.

    Wow... they skipped a step here... where did this come from? This is the sum is more then the parts argument.

    He serves nothing more than natural laws.

    Serving and obeying are 2 seperate things.

    He has no self-determined purpose.
    If there is a God, then I have purpose, since I have a will and my purpose is given to me by God.

    God giving you a purpose is the same as chemicals doing it.

    Since I claim to have a purpose, not derived from natural Laws, it follows that I claim there is a God.

    It only follows because they just said it. That's like me saying I'm going to follow this sentance with a happy face.

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    Since I determine I have a purpose and I deny the limitations of the boundaries set by Natural Laws, it is reaonable to assume that I believe in God and that there is a God.

    The problem here is that you can't deny the boundaries set by the Natural Laws, because the boundaries would then need modifying.

    Otherwise, we are merely bags of chemicals reacting to stimuli. I believe man is more than that.

    For all you know it is just chemicals making you say that.
     
  11. norad Registered Senior Member

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    Persol

    This is the religion thread, right? Well then, go to the other threads with your so-called science. That's why these are set up like this. If you don't believe, then don't bother others with your rhetoric!
     
  12. Q25 Registered Senior Member

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    typical religious nonsense,
    if you need some imaginary skydady to live for,go for it,
    this atheist lives for people,and for enjoyment of life.
    b/c this life is all there is.
     
  13. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Persol

    Lmao... you are kidding right? I don't see a single mention of 'so-called science' in my thread. Someone suggested an argument that proves god. No point in having an argument if you only show it to people who already believe; now is there?
     

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