The Concept of Forgiveness

Do you need to be forgiven?
Do you need to forgive someone?
What is REALLY forgiveness?

I'm writting this (mostly to Christians) cause many Christians don't grasp the concept of forgiveness. Some people have a human kind of forgiveness that is only formal (in the same way, some people say "thank you", but they don't show thankfulness).

A little story I've experienced. I made a mistake with a Christian friend and she stopped being my friend. I asked other Christians to help me being forgiven. I wanted her to forgive me. They told me that even if I were forgiven that idn't mean that we would be friends again. This is the problem with that:

To be forgiven is to forget the sins.

The Bible teaches us that God forgave us so that we could go to Heaven. God forgot our sins so that we could be saved. This means that when we forgive each other, we should have the same relationship we were having before, as if nothing had happened. If my friend would have said: "I forgive you, but we are still not friends" wouldn't that be silly? It would be like God saying: "I forgive you, but you still go to hell"!

Colossians 1:13-14
"13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

Ephesians 4:32
"32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."

Forgive one another always. Forgiveness brings peace to everyone. Forgiveness is the act of undertanding each other's imperfections, as we also are imperfect ourselves. It is Loving and caring for one another. It is understanding and kindness towards each other and oneself. Always forgive others and yourselves for your mistakes, no one is perfect. Walk in Love, walk with God.

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PS: Yes, she forgave me...

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Against my better judgement, I'm going to try and take a stab at this, Nelson.


"when we forgive each other, we should have the same relationship we were having before, as if nothing had happened."

Why? Why would you ever act as if something had not happened? Remember Nelson, it is our actions and thoughts that make up our personality - to try and remove a negative action or thought someone made is to remove a piece of their personality. This means no matter how much it may have hurt you or you may have hurt them - it is an attribute of your personality.

I may forgive you for saying something to me. It doesn't mean that it's not something you did.

 

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why would you want to take truths statement so literally? once you forgive, you put the event behind you. for all intents and purposes, it did not happen. it does not have to mean that it is being repressed in a psychological sense.

with imagination and a lot of reflection, i could give my personality a makeover. the changes might be superficial or it might result in a different person depending on the level of psych/soc/bio conditioning one labors under

 

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TruthSeeker:

Forgiving and forgeting have nothing to do with one another. I would be very interested in learning how you came up with "To forgive is to forget".

The logic you are using against your friend is making a bad situation worse. You injured her in some way, then you presure her into forgiving her, now you want to manipulate her into doing somthing she does not want to do.

If you messed up take the consequences and don't try to victimize your friend again. I would say leave her be and be thankful that she has forgiven you.

 

T,

Once an event has occurred it cannot be undone. It is out there.

If you make a mistake then you must live with the consequences.

For some, if the mistake is so bad that they can't cope with the consequences, then suicide is the final option.

If you were forgiven and the bad actions were somehow erased then there would be no incentive for you to take responsibility for your actions and to avoid making the mistake again in the future.

It is the pain of our mistakes that makes most of us learn very quickly how not to make the same mistakes again.

If someone forgives you for something you have done against them then all that means is that they have agreed to relinquish their resentment of your actions. It does not mean that they are prepared to forget the action or want to take the risk of you making the same mistake again. The best you can expect from someone who has offered forgiveness is that that they are not then likely to seek revenge.

The Christian concept of forgiveness also discourages people from taking full responsibility for their actions and hence they are likely to continue to make mistakes. Such a concept is irresponsible

 

Emily Dickinson:
All but Death, can be Adjusted—
Dynasties repaired—
Systems—settled in their Sockets—
Citadels—dissolved—

Wastes of Lives—resown with Colors
By Succeeding Springs—
Death—unto itself—Exception—
Is exempt from Change—

Lord Chesterfield:
Wrongs are often forgiven, but contempt never is. Our pride remembers it forever.

funny

Hillary Rodham Clinton:
In the Bible it says they asked Jesus how many times you should forgive, and he said 70 times 7. Well, I want you all to know that I'm keeping a chart.

Robert Frost:
Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee
And I'll forgive Thy great big one on me

 

What did you do to her in the first place that requires forgiveness anyway?

 

Tyler,

Forgiveness brings peace to both parts. As long as both parts understand that neither are perfect and that the mistake could have been made by the other, forgiveness can happen. If there is a lack of this understanding, forgiveness cannot happen, cause one will feel better then the other. But God teaches us that no one is better then anyone else, that everyone has imperfections. Therefore, we should forgive each other.

What is more important: our peace or our "personality"?


spookz,

Thank you sooo much for your input...

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That's exactly my point.


MShark,

Really? When God says: "I forgive your sins" doesn't that mean that as far as He is concerned we are sinless? Because whoever sins and is not forgiven goes to hell. When God says that He forgive us, in His eyes, we are sinless. It doesn't mean that we didn't sin, it just means that it doesn't affect Him anymore.

"'Against"? Making it worse? We are friends again! We Love each other and always forgive each other! And I didn't injure her, I just pressured her because she is going in the wrong way and I don't want her to be hurt. And I say to you as politely as possible that this is not your business anyways. And I'm nott trying to manipulate her, I just want her to be well, to be in peace. You simply think like a some Christians and that is not good.

We ARE friends and we Love and care about each other.


Cris,

You can choose to be affected by it or not. It is your attitude that makes the difference, and NOT the circumstances that surround you.

My mistake was to care enough about her to risk our friendship to try to save her from her own mistakes. And I certainly accepted the consequences.

My focus is in God. When that happened my Faith grew. If I were focused on her and on the mistake I would possibly have killed myself. But... guess what? My Love is not the "love" of this world, but a Love that is for everybody, and not just for one person.

No, it is the exact opposite. If you are forgiven you will understand that anyone is perfect and that everyone makes mistakes. You will see that what you did was wrong and you will do your best not to do it again. If you are found guilty and you are punished, you will be encouraged to do it again, because those things are the very things that makes people hurt others. There is no good on punishing someone. It doesn't teach that person that what they do was wrong, it just makes them hateful.

And forgiveness stops that pain so that you can move on on your life. If you are not forgiven you will be attached to that guilt for the rest of your life. That sucks. That stinks. That helps in nothing. Wrong way.

That is human forgiveness and doesn't solve the problem at all. In fact, it might create even more risks if the forgiven person is not aware of that. God's forgiveness erases the mistake from both minds but the lesson learned stays in the forgiven person.

No, it actually encourages them to make a better job. They feel Loved and cared and that encourages them to change and don't make their mistakes anymore. Without this forgiveness, there is guilt, and that produces seeds of death withing the unforgiven person. It makes them hateful, desolated and frustrated. It hurts them and, in turn, they hurt others.


Darwin Disciple,

I could say it is none of your business, but I'll be kind with you. I pressured her into making changes in her life because she is doing something that might hurt her in the future. It is not something very easy to see. It is not an explicit sin, but rather something that could be right in some people's eyes, but it is not. Complex for you to understand since I'm not going to reveal all the variables of the situation. Therefore, my greatest sin against her was to care enough to risk our friendship.

 

Forgiveness isn't necassarily forgetting, at the core its just saying "I know ya screwed up, but thats ok". Besides, nothing is ever really truly forgotten, usually recoverable by hypnosis or similar techniques. Forgiveness is saying thats alright, and thats what im best at

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TruthSeeker:

From what you have been writing it does not appear that you regret your actions and that given the same situation you would do the same thing again.

I just don't understand how a person can demand to be forgiven. Forgivness is a gift not a bargaining tool.

Forgiving means forgeting just plain baffels me. Are you saying that God forgets all of the actions that she has forgiven?

 

" pressured her into making changes in her life because she is doing something that might hurt her in the future. It is not something very easy to see. It is not an explicit sin, but rather something that could be right in some people's eyes, but it is not. Complex for you to understand since I'm not going to reveal all the variables of the situation. Therefore, my greatest sin against her was to care enough to risk our friendship"

No, Nelson, this is called pushing your beliefs on her. You have a view; a religious one, an ethical one, one simply dealing with the nature of the universe and humans. You have tried to push this belief on her. That will piss off most people and make the rest laugh.

Besides this, you don't sound like you've apologized at all. An apology is where you admitt you did something wrong and wish to make up for it. You still feel you did right.

 

I say:

If you thought that her not forgiving you was wrong then, according to your argument, you should have forgiven her for not forgiving you.

The two of you would then have had the same relationship you were having before you forgave her for not forgiving you.

 

man_of_jade,

Yes. But when you forgive someone you are actually saying: "I understand that you are not perfect and I'm not perfect either. The mistake you made could have also been mine. You made a mistake, but this is past and you don't need to do it again. So I will remember no more what you have done because I know it wasn't your intention to hurt me in any way. "


MShark,

How can I regret have tried to help her? No, I don't. However, I'm not going to push her anymore cause I know she doesn't feel well with that. Now, let's stop talking about my situation.

And WHO said I demanded? I'm just speaking what forgiveness truly is, that's all.

I'm saying that God Loves us enough not to condemn us.


Tyler,

It is not belief. And let's stop right here, cause I'm not going to bring the situation into the conversation.

Right: Tried to help her.
Wrong: Pushed her.
I know what I've done right and what I've done wrong.


firefighter,

AND I DID. But now she forgave me and we are ok.

She forgave me. I hope I won't need to say this again.

 

"It is not belief. And let's stop right here, cause I'm not going to bring the situation into the conversation."

It is a belief, Nelson. You have a view of what is right and what is wrong, what is good in life and what is bad.


"Right: Tried to help her"

Not everyone wants help. Not everyone wants help from you. You need to be able to figure out which individuals want your help and which don't. It is pretentious and simply being an asshole to assume everyone wants to, or should, listen to you

 

Truthseeker,

U've not committed any "sin" hence no need to be forgiven.

If u want her to coninue the friendship try to make her understand.

In human perspective, Forgiveness is subjective, for those who forgive. It removes the sting of bitterness. Forgetting is another game.

Now, God is forgiving for ur realising the mistake and determination of not continuing the same. He is not gifting u his forgiveness. As a judge He just condones ur mistake.

No one can forget even after forgiven.

 

Truthseeker:
When I say im sorry, i say thats ok. Forgetting completely everything that was done againstt you i agree is important, but what if it was something like adultery, or killing your brother/sister/etc? Would you be able to just simply forget That?

 

Tyler,

Yeah sure... next time a loved one of yours runs with his/her eyes closed towards a cliff do NOTHING to stop him/her...:bugeye:


everneo,

We are friends again. And, sometimes, people don't like to listen to the truth.

This is what I meant:
When God forgive us, in His eyes we are sinless. In the same way, when we forgive someone, in our eyes that person is sinless.


man_of_jade,

Big things are hard to forget. Most people think that is impossible, and I can comprehend that. However:

Matthew 19:26
"26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Mark 10:27
"27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

 

however jesus said? you gotta be kidding!

big things usually are taken out of your hands and dealt with by society. whether you forgive or forget is irrelevant

 

spookz,

That's a whole other issue.

 

It's simple

I just remind myself that there's nothing to forgive. The only reason someone killing me should matter anymore than one asteroid banging into another is that I'm awake enough to be aware of it. The Mark of Cain keeps coming up in various places I'm reading; this is one of those occasions that I agree with Jesus. But taking the position that there's nothing to forgive, though, cuts out the conflict that comes with presuming the right and arrogance of judgment. And I've found that relationships still change after bad incidents, but I don't need to worry about it. It's generally the other person changing the most on those occasions that I am annoyed. And besides, humans are such mumbling, blithering nimrods in general that I've discovered that nobody is guilty of anything. Seriously, no matter how offended I or someone is, there's always a reason why the offending party should be offended that others are offended. It's kind of like listening to James Carville and Rush Limbaugh speak simultaneously--it's best to just turn off, tune out, and pursue the joys of being human.

A practical example: I'm sitting here entertaining Emma Grace, my daughter, as I type. Now, her mother and I have seven years of history, and most of it is rocky. Suffice to say that we've never gotten each other hauled in for domestic violence, and she's only ever gotten me arrested once, and only ever taken a swing once. Nonetheless, despite my own mistakes of apathy (e.g. no condom), she was calculating a way to preserve a human association that only she refused to accept was dead. We actually hate each other to a certain scary degree. But yes, she was calculating how to get herself knocked up. Now, my friends were all very annoyed, of course, when it came to light that she was pregnant. But all of them know what I know--it's not just a matter of forgiving for the sake of the future. There is nothing to forgive. I have a daughter now. What am I supposed to say? "It's okay, honey, I forgive you." I have a daughter. What the hell about that is to forgive? F--k. I have a daughter. I've never been able to say that before.

There is nothing to forgive, merely much to work out. Otherwise, my partner and I might spend the rest of our lives forgiving each other and forgetting to raise our daughter. Of course, watching her parents play for forgiveness is a little sickening. But they're ... twisted.

You see what I'm getting at, I hope ....

:m:,
Tiassa

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