Why is intolerance of Christianity alright, but intolerance of Islam is bigotry?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Frogger, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. Frogger Banned Banned

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    Christianity is attacked from various angles in our society. Creationism is constantly under fire (with good reason, but that is not the point of this thread), group prayer is not allowed in public schools, churches are criticized for their tax-exempt status, and so on.

    But with Islam and Muslims, it is a different story. One cannot point to the activities of the "prophet" Mohammad or the verses in the Koran that promote violence and insult women without being called a "bigot." Muslims make the "that verse is being taken out of context" defense, but when Christians use this defense with the Bible they are "coping out."

    History books love to point out the violent acts of Christians during the Crusades, while downplaying the acts of Muslims as they attempted to take over the world after Mohammad's death.

    Why is Christianity criticized left and right, while Islam is exempt from this scrutiny?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2003
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  3. Jaxom Tau Zero Registered Senior Member

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    Look back through this forum and you'll find quite a few Islam directed posts. Many arguments are similar to that against Christianity, while some are more specific to the Qu'ran.

    And while the intolerance of any idea is wrong, that doens't mean the idea itself cannot be scrutinized. Plus I believe fundamental Christians probably are just as defensive as Muslims are, it's just there's less hard core fundamentalists for Christianity, and more divisions than Islam.
     
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  5. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    Two reasons, I think:

    - Christianity is "ours". We feel have some kind right to criticising it. However, Islam is most prevalent in cultures different from our own, and as a result we are uneasy about evaluating it under our moral paradigm. Also, we are relatively familar with Christianity and Christians, but far more ignorant and Islam and Muslims. Hence we don't feel qualified to judge it.

    - Our society is far more Christian, and so it holds a greater place in our consciousness. Do does the Muslim right have any say in your country? Or is it Christians who are far more likely to have political influence? Many people, I suspect are opposed to any religious influence, however will only speak out against the ones capable of disadvantageous change ie. Chrissies.

    They probably deserve equal criticism since they are practically identical in mentality and message. Both monotheistic, highly virulent, book religions with very absolute moral laws powered by divine revelation. Basically, they are the same thing with the names changed.
     
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  7. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    i'm quite intolerant against the idea of fascism and genocide and I think that my intolerance is not wrong.
     
  8. Jaxom Tau Zero Registered Senior Member

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    They are certainly extremes that I too disagree with. But even the idea of a fascist state, or a purpose for genocide, has a freedom to be expressed. This hardly makes it right. But it's no different than the KKK being allowed to preach their racism, so long as it doesn't step across the line of infringing other's rights.

    Tolerance isn't acceptance of the idea, only its expression.

    But that's beyond the point here...
     
  9. For one very good reason, everyone that is not a christian, thinks you are wrong & either wants you to think like them or wants to tell you how wrong you are


    Muslims may defend themselves that way, but if we look at the history of how muslims act while in power, they fell that they are right because of allah, and everybody else is just plain ignorant of the truth.

    Face it, you live in the West, & many people are trying to knock its moral foundations with humanistic ideals & Christianity runs counter to that. It serves their purposes to attack Christianity, & now that islam is in its sights, they are next. western ideas & ideals are not compatible with islam either, so it’s a ‘worldview’ struggle, maybe a life & death one for each?

    Islam doesn't get a free ride any more, you need to read more
     
  10. Hannibal Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus fucking Christ, I thought this trolling faggot NotPresidentAndrew was banned?
     
  11. Amie Registered Senior Member

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    hi Frogger

    Hi frogger
    are you "NotMichaelJackson" on anorther forum? just curious if you are one and the same...

    I think many are equal opportunity bashers so I dont think its Christianity alone.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Outed?!

    I didn't know that nPA was a "faggot" ...?

    Hmph. Learn something every day.

    :m:,
    Tiassa

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  13. On Radioactive Waves lost in the continuum Registered Senior Member

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    why is it that americans are told that our problem with islam is we are not tollerant, yet islam is not tollerent of americans and wants to kill them all? just a thought.....
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Because ....

    Because the best you'll get out of that intolerant Muslim crowd is their version of Jerry Falwell.

    I've never met a Muslim who wanted to kill me.° And now peaceful members of my community are persecuted for the acts of extremists. After all is said and done, shouldn't we be rounding up Christians for the general safety of the world? That's why it's best to not start.

    But focusing on the intolerant Muslims is the equivalent of focusing on the Falwells, Mabons, and doctor-killers in this country and branding your own decent neighbors and family members as the same. Of course, so few of American Christians, for instance, have Muslim relatives, so the issue doesn't come up much, does it?

    Remember, also, that our view of Muslim-sponsored violence is skewed. For years the Palestinians were reviled for their violence, but Americans have started to realize that, unfortunately, they have their reasons, many of which are legitimate. It's all in how you hurt people. If you do it through mockeries of justice like the US in its quiet war against American Muslims, or the British in Ireland, you can get away with it. If you do it directly with a bomb or a 757 like Al Qaeda or the IRA, you catch a lot of heat from the uppity part of the rest of the world. Of course Americans have developed a bad view of Muslims:

    - We are contractually obliged to Israel
    - The Ayatollah toppled a vicious dictator who treated the US well in its oil policies
    - We're still pissed about the OPEC embargo in the 1970s
    - We're horrified by Saddam Hussein, despite having paid for some of his atrocities
    - We're repulsed by the Taliban, despite having raised them to power

    And patriotic Americans have learned to think of Islam as savage because of these and other factors.

    Bush Sr. declared the US a religious nation according to the Bible, and Bush Jr. thinks we're in a holy war. All told, what would you expect Americans to believe?

    :m:,
    Tiassa

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    ° This is more than I can say of Christianity, for instance.
     
  15. On Radioactive Waves lost in the continuum Registered Senior Member

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    you mean they play our congress like the fiddle?


    This is why I dont watch tv (much), or rather, avoid it. News is watered down. I have relatives in other countries. everyone seems to agree that the u.s. convienently avoids exposing issues which make them look bad. If an issue at hand is important enough I (most likley/hopefully) will find out about it without the need of u.s. media (tv, newspaper)

    This is probabl entirly wrong, but wasn't it senator ashcoft who wanted to censor the internet?

    Freedom of speech on the internet seems to be the biggest enemy of supressing world wide information to the people.


    americans believe, for the most part, what they are spoon fed. however, I do think they are getting wiser as a reslt of the internet. one of the reasons I like this place is that there is a diversity of opinions from different parts of he world. I'll be the first to say that I'm ignorant to the political scene. thats not to say I know knothing. I'll also be the first to admit about not being well versed in religion. I tend to hate the concept of religion. When my mother attempted to raise me catholic, proclaiming that it was "the only way that was right" my response would be and has been "what makes them right compared to the majority of religious people who arn't catholic"?

    To me, the biggest problem with religion is that its taboo, and this all ties in with politics. No one wants to come out and say "this is just flat out wrong".

    religion also preys on weak minded people who feel hey need it, their victims come to them.

    people who are deeply embedded in religion are incapable of having rational discussion about what others seem to find as flaws in their "perfect philosiphy"

    so where am I going with all this? politics is extremly complicated, and uses religion to their advantage every chance it gets. Religion is but another channel to deliver propaganda to the people.

    I personally have never read the quaran, nor will anyone reading a translation of the quaran read what is actually written there. All I have to go by is what I've seen and read and heard.

    I'd have to say that the american people believe wha they are told, mainly from newspapers and television. aahhhhhhhhh, that wonderful, flickering tube. I cant wait to turn it on, and allow it to manipulate my every thought....... or do I even have my own thoughts?
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882
    ORW

    I'm looking for a link. At one time, the US took responsibility for the security of Israel according to a UN agreement. At least, that's the history I learned in high school and at least one college class. Of course, I would think the link I'm looking for would be more apparent, so ... hmmm.
    Ashcroft, Clinton, Reno ...
    It could become more important a development in human communication than the printing press.
    Agreed in great part. I generally state it as a comparison: Where "chocolate or vanilla" doesn't have tremendous consequences, "Christian, Atheist, or Muslim" (or any other religion) does. This is because religions are superstitions designed to affect not just the manifestation of a person's will but the fundamental will itself.
    I hear you. So do politicians.

    There are some religions, though, that actually seek to chase the "weak" away. Sufism, for instance, reminds everybody who comes to it, "You do not want to do this!"
    As an American, I've found that religion has little or nothing to do with that, or more accurately, does not have the corner on the market.
    I agree, but so is "greed". Do you consider "patriotism" to be a religion?
    I agree about translations, but the same can be said of the Bible. I've argued here with posters before who insist that KJV is definitive.

    Watching TV news is like watching the surface of the river. It shows you a little bit of what's going on, but you must use your skills to determine which process is what. I can see the eddy. I can't see the structures causing it, and must look for them.

    So it is with news stories.
    I generally would say so. But I might suggest considering the idea that you set the boundaries for your perceptions and thoughts. Of course they're your own thoughts no matter where they come from, but if like many your information flow is restricted to Gannett newspapers or CNN or the like, you're trapped in a narrow range of considerations. Think about my local TV news: The lead story is whatever reality show was on during primetime. The story breaks that Hussein tells Rather that he wants to debate Bush. The lead story is "Joe Millionaire", as I recall. Or one of my favorites, "Chilling footage from Rhode Island as a nightclub fire kills an estimated dozens. But first an update on ______ (fill in reality show from affiliated network)."

    Is a rebroadcast of "Evan and Zora's first kiss" really that important? Is the ten minutes of Jackson-related analysis really newsworthy? Makes it easier to fit less than one side of a war into the news, makes it easier to ignore local and possibly national scandals of police departments failing to investigate murders and missing people, or thousands of Muslims swept away and hidden by our government behind a veil of secrecy.

    :m:,
    Tiassa

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  17. New Life Registered Senior Member

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    Re: ORW

    According to the christian Bible, Jesus said 'this is going to cost you, dont come into it if you cant handle the heat you're gonna take' and its still true today. Christianity is NOT for the weak (depsite the popular idea that it is mearly a 'crutch') Christians are going to face persecution, hardships, trials, they may have to give things up (ie wealth) to follow their calling, etc. Sometimes the work you're doing is going to seem too hard and God will give you comfort, but you still hafta keep working. I advise people who are thinking about it to think about the costs of following Christ before signing up, cause it is hard. Unfortunately, thats not always talked about
     
  18. Nebula Occasionally Frequent Registered Senior Member

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    I just don't want to piss them off

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    .
     
  19. Nightpoet Registered Senior Member

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    Smartass!

    I don't critize Islam becaue I know nothing about it. I haven't read the Qu'ran, and have no familiarity with it. I have read parts of the Bible nad have more familiarity with Christianity. Therefore, it bears the brunt of my criticism.

    I think everyone faces persecution, hardship and trials at some point in their life regardless of religion.
     
  20. Nebula Occasionally Frequent Registered Senior Member

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    the real reason for me is that, since I'm a hick, I generalize all the Abramic religions into one; they all share most of the fundamental characteristics, and I choose to single out Xianity because it's the one I'm most familiar with.

    And same reason as ^. Never read or studied the Koran, so...
     

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