It seems any point brought up by members of the Islamic faith is centered from a fundamentalist point of view. I find this peculiar and counter-productive. Questions for followers of Islam: 1) Why do you try to use the Quran against atheists as proof of any kind? They do not believe God exists, much less believe in any book about God. 2) Do you think there is any hope in proving the existence of God from a fundamentalist perspective? Atheists are almost all anti-religious. (they'll flame me for saying that...too) They will not take any religious text or doctrine seriously, especially not from a fundamentalist religion. Question for Atheists: 1) Given the degree of belief or faith in the people of fundamentalist religions, is there any point at which you should cease and desist with any attempt to make a point? 2) Would it be as important to you to denounce the God and religion of the people of Islam, if they didn't attempt to prove their faith to you?
i'll try to asnwer some. granted i'm not an atheist, but close enough 1)people will believe in something regardless of anything. that's kinda what religion is. I've never seen a fundamentalist swayed with logic. though maybe it is possible. 2)granted atheist do seem to target certain religions with their ridicule. that's because people in these religions often see fit to try to convert everyone, or denounce anyone who does not agree with them. so of course they become targets. for example I've seen plenty of Christian-Atheist debates, but never a Jewish-Atheist debate. not that the Atheist agrees anymore with the Jewish religion, just that(at least in my experience) the christians bother the atheist so much more. with all the condeming of anyone who is not christian and all the trying to convert everyone. so something similar could be said about Islam. I mean when someone claims to have proof that their religion is the one true religion and it's just an obscure passage in one of their religious text. that's just asking for it.
Funnily enough, I don't really think most atheists are stridently against religion. There are very few "fundamentalist" atheists (compare fundamentalist theists). From my personal point of view, I have no problem with anybody believing in whatever religion pushes their buttons, provided that their belief does not have a negative impact on the people around them. In that sense, I regard any fundamentalist expression of religion a negative thing. In my own experience, I clash with fundamentalists most often when they try to assert that God is a scientifically provable concept, or when they assert that scientists are all anti-religious. In fact, many scientists are religious, and they are at the same time quite ready to accept that their religion is based on faith rather than science. There is no necessary conflict between the two. I think if that most of the atheists who post here do so not in the belief that they will convert any religious person (especially a fundamentalist), but in the hope that they may dissuade people who are undecided from taking a hard-line religious view. As far as Islam is concerned, I would not denounce the religion. Islam in itself is no more harmful than any other religion. I don't see much difference between Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists.
Yup I agree, JR. But, I see it as an almost sado-masochistic venture on either side to do battle. They are soooooo far away from each other. Different dimension. Why bother? You answered. It's rhetorical.
Yeah.. Conflicts pop up when both sides try to prove their point unmindful of the others' argument which are on totally different premises.
As a follower of Islam, here are my answers: I. I personaly believe that you should use logic. I also believe that the Quran is perfectly logical. But I tend to use it but as a reference. There is also the possibility that someone might look beyond his prejudice. II. Of course if one is antireligious then there is not much hope a discussing anything. A religious prespective is not nessecarily a bad thing. one has to try and stay open, for one's sake. It's a gamble, one might listen or not....no hard feelings Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
aH! blackstone... yes I said I personaly... And if what I put forward is not satisfactory, then one should simply ignore it...And not insult others!
Re: Re: Re: Why Islamics vs Atheists? it can be used for reference when trying to show what one believes in and why
One should always try to educate people, even those who closed themselves to rational thinking. Although mostly I can't be bothered. It is more interesting to discuss an intelligent subject with a rational person. probably not. But as it is I see them as a thread to modern society, since they are trying to persuade other people to join their cult. This isn't my idea of a multicultural peaceful society. They long for a unicultural society, a cultural dictatorship. And in technical terms this just plainly sucks.
