Define "Christian"

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by New Life, Feb 7, 2003.

  1. New Life Registered Senior Member

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    371
    What is the definition of a christian? how bout a TRUE Christian?

    also, how do you percieve christians as a group and where did you get the images you hold of them?
     
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  3. firefighter Registered Senior Member

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    There are a number of ways of defining a christian, including but not limited to:

    1. Someone who professes belief in Jesus Christ.

    2. Someone who follows a religion which is purported to be based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    3. Someone who is a decent human being - Christlike.

    4. Someone who actually lives their life according to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    #4 is what I understand a TRUE Christian to be.

    I perceive Christians as a group of individuals. There are probably close to as many sects of Christianity as there are individuals who claim to be Christian - Very few TRUE Christians. Lots of Christians can "talk the talk" but very few can "walk the walk".
     
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  5. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    that's a dangerous thought: define a true christian.

    that would mean that people that don't fit this definition are not christians. Wars were fought for this principle.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mayhaps

    Mayhaps.
    Well, why don't I have sex with little girls and call myself Christian? Oh, that's right--David Koresh beat me to it.

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    I hate to make light of a bad situation, but I'm an American, so ... yeah. Anyway, there is a good deal of argument both here at Sciforums and in society at large about the influence of Christianity and the results thereof. But what is Christianity? Any literate critic of Christianity is aware of the excuse, "But ____ isn't a real Christian." We've all heard it. And frequently. After a while, you start to feel like there aren't any real Christians left, which notion can really agitate the conscience. I have those days when I simply can't believe the US Constitution is being wasted on this or tha brand of people. But what the hell is a Christian?

    And when you pin the faith down metaphysically, one of the first walls you run into is the redemption. To judge by evangelism, salvation is the first and foremost reason to convert. Let me, then, get this straight: You convert in order to save your ass, and God doesn't know you're greedy? It isn't a matter of helping the poor to win God's favor; compassion is its own reward, and it seems that there exists an attainable condition in which it is possible to do God's will without stopping and thinking about the fact that one is doing God's will. I think of Franny's breakdown, I think of prayer without ceasing. There comes a condition which can be called love without ceasing, and it is a thorougly utopiate vision. It is, after all, a metaphysical notion.

    I can go through the list of "prominent" Christians and they're all bogus: Carman, Falwell, Roever, Tilton, ad nauseam. The affirmations of the common faith don't do much: "I know it was God lookin' out for me." Yeah, and I know it was Nazis who saved my ass; only a Volkswagen Beetle could defy time and space at the same time. The vulgar apologies: "I have sinned." I was raised Lutheran; I went to Catholic school; I learned from Baptists and Quakers. I'm schooled enough to make jokes about Mennonites, Moravians, and Unitarians (if there's a bad Unitarian joke, I ain't heard it yet). I have been raised under the presumption of values which draw their authority from Biblical and post-Christian paradigms. Point being, after all of this, I have yet to see something which truly speaks to me as a reward of faith. I have yet to see the actualization of all that fervent evangelical promise.

    So I'm quite happy to see New Life pursuing this issue. I would love to see what people can come up with. One of the hardest ideas will be to compare the expressed ideal with the reality of human diversity.

    I think this has the potential to be a very interesting topic.

    :m:,
    Tiassa

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  8. ConsequentAtheist Registered Senior Member

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    5. Someone who agrees with the heresy purges.
    6. Someone who would have voted with the majority in the 4th century.
     
  9. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    24,066
    there are no christians...
    there are protestants, catholics etc and even these have to be subdivided since they don't seem to agree on anything.
     
  10. mohamed Registered Senior Member

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    104
    a christian is believing in god but adding to him some criteria that dont belong to him as he has a son.
    or believing in three not one { god, jesus, holy spirit}
     
  11. hockeywings Don't dance without music Registered Senior Member

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    My understanding has always been that if you profeesed that Jesus died for you sins that you were a Christian, all the other stuff is just interpretation.
     
  12. Turduckin A Fowl Trinity Registered Senior Member

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    The major issues of Christian faith

    From the Christian Counseling and Training Center, Inc.

    The major issues of faith:
    1. Creatoin of the Universe by God
    2. Deity/humanity of Christ.
    3. Substitutionary atonement of Christ.
    4. Inspiration and infallibility of Scriptures
    5. Nature of the Trinity
    6. Salvation by faith through Grace
    7. Sin
    8. Call to santification.
     
  13. New Life Registered Senior Member

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    371
    I think that protestants are more* christian than mormons

    *i say this because the protestants are still using the bible while mormons have created their own book altogether!
     
  14. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

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    274

    The world is full of Hypocrites, those who call themselves Christians, soley based on political, or social reasons.
     
  15. Turduckin A Fowl Trinity Registered Senior Member

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    New Life - what do you make of Romans 1:18-20 that clearly states that creation reveals God so clearly that 'men are without excuse'? Does that mean that I can use nature the way that you would use scripture - as Jesus did in Matthew 13? If I gain a portion of what I know about God has been revealed from Creation, am I less Christian than someone who relies solely on the Bible? Jesus used scripture, but only by a fraction. Paul used scripture, but only by a fraction. Is the trinity the Father, the Son and the Holy Bible? I don't think you can define a persons Christianity by their use of the Bible. Anyone can quote Scripture.
     
  16. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

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    274
    What it means to be a true Christian?

    1) Someone who is born again. John 3:3
    What does this mean? To realize that one is a sinner, incapable of stopping oneself from sinning in the power of their own strength. Then that person humbles themself before God, admitting that they are a sinner, and seeking God's mercy, through the payment that Jesus made on the cross. Believing God's promise to send His mercy, as soon as it is sought for with sincerity.

    2) Professes Jesus Christ as Lord of their life. Romans 10:9,10

    What does Lord mean? It means master and owner.

    3) One who maintains a relationship with the living Lord, through frequent personal (not ritual) prayer, and scripture study of both the Old and New Testaments.

    Jesus said, that I did not come to destroy the Old Testament, but to fulfill (properly interpret) it.

    4) One who finds a church which believes and preaches the scriptures, and fellowships with them on a frequent (as near to weekly as possible) and consistent basis.

    What is fellowship? To associate with a group in a friendly manner.

    5) One who follows the Lord's command to follow him in full-immersion water baptism, after one becomes born again.

    The word baptize is a transliteration of the Greek word "baptizo", which means to fully immerse something,

    6) One who stands up in support of the scriptural teaching in the marketplace, defending the truth of the scriptures from the attacks of the liberals.

    7) One who constantly humbles themself before God, that they may receive the strength the need, to live a holy life, as the Lord desires, putting the teachings of the scriptures into practice.
     
  17. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

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    274
    Trinity in the bible, Creation a sufficient witness

    In the verses you quote from Roman, Paul is saying that there is sufficient witness in nature to show that there is a God, so that an atheist will have absolutely no available excuses, when his/her turn comes up for judgement.

    The knowledge that there is a creator, should then motivate that person to seek God, even the tribesman in the most isolated part of the darkest continent, to seek this God. God promised that we would find him, when we seek Him with all of our heart.

    For example, some missionaries recently reported that there have been small muslim villages in Africa, that have become Christian, because Jesus revealed himself as the true God to them in a dream, that the whole village all had on the same night.

    When Christians can't carry the message themselves, Jesus will do it himself.

    A knowledge of nature is not sufficient, to keep you from error, God dictated the scriptures, for that purpose. A knowledge of nature is the doorway to that purpose. Don't stand in the doorway.


    Concerning Trinity in the bible.
    Though the word itself is no in the bible, it is theological shorthand to express a doctrine that the scriptures teach.

    1) Jesus taught us that he and the Father are one. In that Jesus only does that which he sees His Father doing in Heaven.

    2) Jesus usede words about himself, which clearly showed that He, Himself is God. The "I am" statements in John, use the translation word, from Hebrew to Greek, of the word that God named himself, in Exodus 3. Example, " I am the way, the truth and the life, noone comes to th e Father, but through me." "I am the bread of life, that came down from heaven." "I am the light of the World"

    3) When God calls out from heaven, at the Baptism, and the transfiguration, he says, "This is my son....."
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2003
  18. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

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    274
    What are protestants?

    Protestant is actually a group of denominations, which means everything that is bible-believing Christians, apart from the Roman Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox. This group has grown considerably, since it was first coined in the early 1500's. This group then includes, the original founders, which were the Lutherans, and the Swiss Reformed, but now includes Anglicans, and Episcapalians, and Pentecostals, and Charismatics, and Baptists....et al.

    Mormonism, and Jehovah's witness are not Protestant, because their heretical views of God put them outside the pale of orthodox Christianity. If a group is not Christian, it can't be Protestant
     
  19. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    274
    What are protestants?

    Protestant is actually a group of denominations, which means everything that is bible-believing Christians, apart from the Roman Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox. This group has grown considerably, since it was first coined in the early 1500's. This group then includes, the original founders, which were the Lutherans, and the Swiss Reformed, but now includes Anglicans, and Episcapalians, and Pentecostals, and Charismatics, and Baptists....et al.

    Mormonism, and Jehovah's witness are not Protestant, because their heretical views of God put them outside the pale of orthodox Christianity. If a group is not Christian, it can't be Protestant
     
  20. Turduckin A Fowl Trinity Registered Senior Member

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    187
    Re: Trinity in the bible, Creation a sufficient witness

    This is where translation and interpretation causes problems. It clearly says 'What may be known of God'. Not 'just' or 'only' that God exists, but what may be known. Then there is the problem with translation. 1:20 " God's invisible qualities" Some translations say 'even his eternal power and divine nature' others say 'namely his eternal power and divine nature.' But both say his invisible qualities. Is not wisdom an invisible quality of God? Is not knowledge also an invisible quality of God?

    Don't worry about me standing in the doorway brother. I agree that a knowledge of nature is not enough, but neither is a knowledge of scripture going to prevent one from going astray. [1 Cor 1:18] What IS required is the work and knowledge of the Holy Spirit. This forum is a testimony to the ineffectiveness of scripture without the the Holy Spirit.

    I think you misunderstood me. Many Christians act as if the trinity is the Father, the Son, and The Holy Bible . It is not. As you point out, the Holy Spirit can do whatever he wants to do, even teach about God through General Revelation. My personal testimony is that I came to God first because he spoke his name to me as a child, then because he gave me the eyes through the Holy Spirit to see Him revealed in all his glory in nature and only then through Babtism into Christ. My personal mission is to bring people to the Lord through nature. I am thankful to God for his Creation, and I am ashamed at how we as a Christians have not done our job as stewards. Gen 2:15

    Romans 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

    In the above passage, who is the one who subjected creation to frustration? Not God, but Man.

    I'm not arguing this point, but I would like to know the scriptural basis for this. I also notice that in your entire list you say nothing about sanctification. Is that not important?

    Again, I would like to know the scriptural basis for this - especially the part about liberals. I'm a Christian and a Democrat Liberal from the North East. Does that mean you have to defend against me? Or do you have to defend against Pentacostals because of their interpretation of Acts? Or are you talking about liberals who graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary, as my pastor did?. Or are you talking about people who use the NIV instead of the King James? Or Only Unitarians, which I was as a child? Please pardon me if I seem overly sensitive to this. It's because I have been judged by "Non-liberal" Christians my entire life and I had to convert to Christianity in spite of them, not because of them - once I felt the loving conviction of the Holy Spirit and not the hot judgement of Christian Fundamentalists I could begin to feel the power of a God who loves us beyond all reason.
     
  21. New Life Registered Senior Member

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    371
    thank you all those who completed thoughts I had (ie, protestants, and the scriputres/nature)........I agree completely with both of you
     
  22. Darwin Disciple Evo v CS advocate Registered Senior Member

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    What's the ratio of Islamic "denominations" vs christian denominations?
     
  23. biblthmp Registered Senior Member

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    Sanctification & liberalism

    Pardon me, for not metioning it, but yes, Sanctification is something to be desired fully, but it is a work of God in us. As we humble ourselves before God, He plants it in us. It is not a work of the flesh.

    It reminds me of the story Jesus told, concerning the Sadducees, being white washed tombs, full of dead mens bones. It was because they pursued righteousness in their own strength, so they looked good on the outside good on the outside, but are still full of wickedness in their hearts. Only when God comes in, does He bring life. Our job, is simply to let him in, so that He can work.

    Concerning liberalism: Let me tell you a story. This past Sunday, the Dean of Harvard Divinity School came to my town to preach, his name is Kristen Stendahl. Needless to say, he was the liberal's liberal. His message was more like Buddism dressed in Christian clothes, than a Christian message. Several of the students that I attend seminary with, all laughed him to scorn.


    To me, I have never met a Christian liberal, they were either one or the other, usually the later. Either one believes the scriptures, or they don't.
     

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