It appears to me, from reading the many posts on this site. That Christians and Islamics seem to use this site as a resource for attacking each others faith. On one hand christians attack islamics for their "brutal" treatment of women, despite the fact the same problems are found in the west. Many christians brand all islamics as dangerous regilious fundamentalists, despite the fact that this is pure fiction. From reading these posts I have drawn the following conclusions: Members of a religion find it impossible to promote their religion without either trying to fault another religion to make their own seem more valid. Also the constant referral to ancient texts, that cannot be taken literally, seems to be a tool employed to promote ones religion. In a perfect world full of open minds the greater solution to this conflict would be simple. If both the members of the Islamic faith and the Christian faith dropped the fables and the stories (Mohammad, Jesus etc...) surrounding the core values of their respective religions...then they would have very similar beliefs. Can Bible bashers and Quranic maniacs please refrain from telling me how bad I am and how much I will suffer for posting this!
fear interesting comment if they would like to convince people they then should mention the good aspects of their own religion instead of making negative comments on others? Except that nobody wants to be convinced to join a religion which is based on the ancient cultural aspect of fear (fear of the almighty god). Life used to be a great uncertainty with many (deadly) suprises. A culture based on fear of life was the logical result. I think we can see this reflected in christianity and islam. However, nowadays nobody fears life anymore. They (religions) tried to subsitute fear with love for a while, but this message is not really getting through. There are other ways to obtain 'love' in modern society. A religion is not necessarily a requirement. Fear used to be much more powerful.
It's a recent development It's a recent development. We haven't had many Muslim advocates here before. And the acrimony at this site has not always been this pointless, direct, or -ist (racist, ethnicist, supremacist, &c.) I have a feeling the problem will go away. The site is in a recovery period, with the moderators attempting to salvage what we posters have, in general, made a hideous wreck of. While the current level of faith-based hatred is relatively new, it will hopefully get swept to the side along with the rest of the trash. If it gets real bad, though, remember that you have an "Ignore" button. I've had to use it before; it suddenly became very easy to follow topics once I accounted for a single problematic poster by ignoring him officially. Enjoy your time here. Don't give anyone the satisfaction of taking that away from you. :m:, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Cheers for your comments: I totally agree with you spuriousmonkey. I don't think convincing people to join a religion should be an issue. I think that if people have similar values and basic "good - bad" values they should be able to peacefully coexist without the need to declare a new religion, or conform to one already in place. Can we not get along without everything having to be so defined? Nobody is ever going to give you the perfect spiritual path or answer.... Cheers, Jus
why cant they be taken literally? and the religions are based on these texts so when they are talking about their religion they need to use the texts! in both religions the 'stories' of Mohammad and Jesus and that are not considered stories.........just because you dont believe them doesnt make them fake Recently I had a conversation about whether the God of christians and muslims is the same God...........we came to the conclusion that it probably is! the real key to these religions is 'who is the messiah?' (the jews are included in that)
I have a feeling that we should all look up some Hindu philosophy sometime soon. Hey Green, as for your attacks on Xtianity, get this. "There is one God. Men call him by many names." Humbling, eh?
it's the whole Us vs Them thing again. people generalize about other groups to the point of seeing them as a borg like mass. if one musilm is a terrorist then they all are. life is never that simple, but people like to think of it as that way. that's why post 9-11 there was all this anti-muslim backlash as if every muslim in the world was somehow "in on it". putting another group down always make you feel better. it happens all the time in many different areas. people who do that all the time are just stupid and closed minded. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Re: Re: Christlam? because not a single historian would take any section literally from an historic text. The simple reason for this is that our culture evolves constantly. Any historic text therefore has to be interpreted according to the standards or way of thinking of that particular era. that's true, but a large part of the muslim population didn't see anything wrong in the 9-11 attacks, even of those living in western countries. That's disturbing. I just wonder if there is some kind of religious reason for this, or is it just politics. If the reason is religious than the backlash might be warranted.
Hi, I agree fully with spuriousmonkey. The validity of bible/quran stories is not a matter for disupute in this post. Regardless of their historical significance, or the fact that they did or did not happen......they are irrelevant. If you want to believe that Samson had the strenght of 100 men, and David killed the GIANT Goliath, well then thats your perogative. I will not attack you for your beliefs. My point is that if you took away these stories, the views of Christianity and Islam are almost the same. So in my opinion if Christians attack Muslims and vice versa, they are attacking their own faith also, as there faith is fundamentally the same. Jus
but they are NOT the same! The KEY to christianity is that Jesus is the messiah and he died for our sins! even if you took everything out of it and left just that then the two religions still are not the same!
Well said I agree with you completely. I also commend you for being bold enough to say what obviously needs to be said.
New Life, If you had bothered to read my post in full you would see that the difference between Christianity and Islam is not as big as members of these religions would tell you. (Like you) My point is too remove Jesus, Mohammad, Saints, Prophets stories etc.....and sumerize each book as a set of rules. You will find that they are almost identicle. And this was my point in another post. That these religions are basically systems of moral control, they are not divine. Chrisitans and Islamics are brothers united under the same set of rules....you would think that they would be able to get along........ Jus
well said jus... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! new life... do christians recognize that islam is a religion first of all? just curious... i know that muslims do recognize xtianity... also, jus was talkin bout moral rules advocated in both religions.. now why are they there? why would god give us all this stuff and then tell us not to indulge in them? i think this question is more appropriate to muslims cuz in xtianity ur allowed to drink... but if you have anythin to say about it, id like to hear it... why are there religious laws prohibitin consumption of alcohol, drugs and the bonds of chastity? wouldn't it be better if god didn't make it in the first place and not makin it an issue later... its like showin a lollypop to a kid and then takin it away... sorry, can't have it.. p.s. this reminds of the al pacino monologue in devil's advocate.. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hi, To any christians or muslims out there my question is simple if somebody came to you today and told you there was a man called Jimmy going around healing people by touching their eyes and curing lepracy with the touch of a hand, don't tell me you wouldn't laugh it off as being some less than credible faith healer. People of the times where religions came to fruition where promised a better life under these religions and at the time anything would be better than the lives they where currently leading. So it would make perfect sense that they would follow like sheep. The difference between people in contemporary society and the people of times past is that we have the freedom to choose differently, have our own views and express them through media such as this forum. That is a great thing and should not be undervalued and it saddens me slightly that with so much freedom at our disposal and the ability to speak our minds so easily, people still bring religious differences into it.
Jus, I did read your post in full and i still dont agree that they are basically the same.......first because you simply cannot take the people out because the religions are based on these people and to take them out would take away the religion........and second as far as morals go there are still differences, such as how women are treated.... since i seem to be missing your point please explain to me what you mean, using examples of what is the same in the morals. ---new life... do christians recognize that islam is a religion first of all? just curious... i know that muslims do recognize xtianity... --- yes, christians recognize that there are other religions in the world and islam is a major one. ---also, jus was talkin bout moral rules advocated in both religions.. now why are they there? why would god give us all this stuff and then tell us not to indulge in them?--- what stuff do you mean exactly? if you mean sex, God gave it as a gift to married people so we are allowed ot indulge it, in fact it is encouraged, so long as it is within a marriage (i think i said this in another thread too) --- i think this question is more appropriate to muslims cuz in xtianity ur allowed to drink... but if you have anythin to say about it, id like to hear it... why are there religious laws prohibitin consumption of alcohol, drugs and the bonds of chastity?---- well we are allowed to drink occassionally, the key is not to be gluttons/drunkards.....one or two drinks is ok (somewhere early in the gosples there is a convo with a king about how a leader should act that includes something to the effect of 'let the drink their wine, you are called to a higher standard' so you could say that those who are not in leadership positions are allowed to have a few and those who are leaders shouldnt b/c they are role models.......drugs are prohibited b/c they are mind altering substances that are not healthy for your body (and the body is supposed to be a temple to the living God)......and chastity is to keep you pure and honouring to yourself, your prospective spouse, and your god, as well as to keep you outta trouble ---wouldn't it be better if god didn't make it in the first place and not makin it an issue later... its like showin a lollypop to a kid and then takin it away... sorry, can't have it..---- God didnt make it an issue, we (as a people) did......when adam and eve took the apple from the snake they introduced sin into the world and suddenly got the idea that maybe sex isnt good at all (which is not right, its good in marriage), the original sin is what made most of this stuff an issue, not God, he meant it as a gift
Hi NewLife, I will have a go again at explaining myself: Basically I would argue that religions are not founded on the stories of the prophets, Saints etc.... These tools were employed as a delivery method. Names, places and events were used to deliver messages. Such as: The 10 commandments. If a member of christianity wants to believe that Moses brougth the tablets down from a mountain....then so be it. All the information contained on the tablets was already well known in Rome 1000 years before. In Roman culture there was a republic based on rules and similar values..ie Do not murder, do not sleep with your neighbours wife etc....I assure Christianity and Islam have similar rules and values, therefore how can it be divine if it was known 1000 years before.....thought to the Romans by their own gods. Can you see were I am comming from? Therefore my point is this, the information is not divine. It is by no means divine. The information recieved helps people co-exist peacefully. Islamics live in peace with each other, as do Christians (Usually). The fundamental beliefs they have, which is known as their divine religion...are facts discovered over 3000 years ago. Not by Jesus, god, Budda, Alla or any other such being. They were discovered by man.
Jusmeig. The Mosaic laws preceded Roman law. I post a reference here for interest.(The law museum) 1300 BC: The Ten Commandments According to the Bible, it was in approximately 1300 BC that Moses received a list of ten laws directly from God. These laws were known as the Ten Commandments and were transcribed as part of the Book of Moses, which later became part of the Bible. Many of the Ten Commandments continue in the form of modern laws such as "thou shalt not kill" (modern society severely punishes the crime of murder), "thou shalt not commit adultery" (modern society allows a divorce on this grounds) and "thou shalt not steal" (modern society punishes theft as a crime). The Bible chapter that contains the Ten Commandments (Exodus) follows the recitation of the Commandments with a complete set of legal rules, which are based on the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" legal philosophy of Hammurabi's Code. 450 BC: The Twelve Tables Ten Roman men were given wide powers to write the laws that were to govern Romans. They came up with ten laws to which two were later added. These laws are considered to form the foundation of all modern public and private law. They promoted the organization of public prosecution of crimes and instituted a system whereby injured parties could seek compensation from their aggressors. More importantly, they protected the lower class (plebes) from the legal abuses of the ruling class (the patricians) especially in the enforcement of debts. From that point on, a basic principle of Roman law is that the law must be written and justice cannot be left in the hands of judges alone to interpret. It also prohibited inter-class marriages, seriously punished theft and gave fathers rights of life or death over his sons. The Twelve Tables also punished the misuse of magic! Written on wood and bronze tablets, the Twelve Tables survived almost 1000 years until destroyed by invading gauls in 390. Roman laws weren't thought of as "divine". However, it is not necessary to prove or disprove its "divine origins". It is more important to know which laws that are in full accordance to God's will, and practice them. Islam's laws are similar because they also accept the Ten Commandments.
Hi Jenyar, You are completely incorrect. Rome was founded around 2000bc. About 700 years b4 the Moses fable. The reason we know this is because if you carbon date the ruins under Rome, you will find that they are from around 2000bc. Can you tell me how old Moses house is? The Roman republic was then set up shortly after this. In order for a republic to function, it must abide by certain rules. ie Do not run around killing at random do not rape or steal etc..... What is you answer to that. And should you try to say I am lying Let take the Egyptian example: The first Egyptian dynasty reigned from 3000bc to around 2800bc. This is 1000 years b4 Moses. And yes they lived by the rules above. These rules were given to them by their Gods. you see Jenyar, You should really be worshipping Amon Ra and Seth, as they gave the Egyptians divine knowledge 1000 years B4 Moses was invented. I allow you to retort! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
New Life why? why not outside marriage? how is the body a temple to god? i think this one takes you back to the first question i asked.. who put the apple there?
