Desire

[davenslice]

From what I understand to become desireless you have to eliminate desire all together. If you desire to become desireless you will always desire something. This is not easy, I have tried many times and I can do it for about 2 days then my mind gets cought up in life's crap and I loose it and the next thing i know im saying "I wish". Its kinda like what yoda said, "Do or do not. There is no TRY" If you DO this you will no longer desire desirelessness. What you get is what you get. not what you want. because you will not want. Try reading "The Art Of Happieness" by Dalai-Lama. Its a great book that should open your mind a bit.

[notme2000]

Try reading "The Art Of Happieness" by Dalai-Lama. Its a great book that should open your mind a bit.

Hmm... Perhaps I'll buy that one after the 3 books I'm currently reading, lol.

[Empty Dragon]

Becoming desireless is kind of like growing up. You accept instead of throughing a tantrum.

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by Rowen
How can one become desireless when they have the desire to become desireless?


Rowen

The same way a man ceases to be hungry when his journey leads him to a kitchen. The desire is what drives you to the final moment, and in that moment all desire is gone forever.

[EvilPoet]

If you sleep,
Desire grows in you
Like a vine in the forest.

Like a monkey in the forest
You jump from tree to tree,
Never finding the fruit -
From life to life,
Never finding peace.

If you are filled with desire
Your sorrows swell
Like the grass after the rain.

But if you subdue desire
Your sorrows shall fall from you
Like drops of water from a lotus flower.

This is good counsel
And it is for everyone:
As the grass is cleared for the fresh
root,
Cut down desire
Lest death after death crush you
As a river crushes the helpless reeds.

For if the roots hold firm,
A felled tree grows up again.
If desires are not uprooted,
Sorrows grow again in you.

Thirty-six streams are rushing toward you!
Desire and pleasure and lust. . .
Play in your imagination with them
And they will sweep you away.
Powerful streams!
They flow everywhere.

Strong vine!
If you see it spring up,
Take care!
Pull it out by the roots.

Pleasures flow everywhere.
You float upon them
And are carried from life to life.

Like a hunted hare you run,
The pursuer of desire pursued,
Harried from life to life.

O seeker!
Give up desire,
Shake off your chains.

You have come out of the hollow
Into the clearing.
The clearing is empty.
Why do you rush back into the
hollow?

Desire is a hollow
And people say "Look!
He was free.
But now he gives up his freedom."

It is not iron that imprisons you
Nor rope nor wood,
But the pleasure you take in gold
and jewels,
In sons and wives.

Soft fetters,
Yet they hold you down.
Can you snap them?

There are those who can,
Who surrender to the world,
Forsake desire, and follow the way.

O slave of desire,
Float upon the stream.
Little spider, stick to your web.
Or else abandon your sorrows for
the way.

Abandon yesterday, and tomorrow,
And today.
Cross over to the father shore,
Beyond life and death.

Do your thoughts trouble you?
Does passion disturb you?
Beware of this thirstiness
Lest your wishes become desires
And desire binds you.

Quieten your mind.
Reflect.
Watch.
Nothing binds you.
You are free.

You are strong.
You have come to the end.
Free from passion and desire,
You have stripped the thorns from
the stem.
This is you last body.

You are wise.
You are free from desire
And you understand words
And the stitching together of words.
And you want nothing.

"Victory is mine,
Knowledge is mine,
And all purity,
All surrender.

"I want nothing.
I am free.
I found my way.
What shall I call Teacher?

The gift of truth is beyond giving.
The taste beyond sweetness,
The joy beyond joy.

The end of desire is the end of sorrow

The fool is his own enemy.
Seeking wealth, he destroys himself.

Seek rather the other shore.

Weeds choke the field.
Passion poisons the nature of man,
And hatred, illusion, and desire.

Honor the man who is without
passion,
Hatred, illusion, and desire.

What you give to him
Will be given back to you,
And more.

Source: Dhammapada

[Siddhartha]

I'd argue that often it is better to try and educate than use the "Talk to the Dhammapada, cause the self ain't listening" approach. No offence intended toward you Evilpoet. I see a lot in you.

[EvilPoet]

Siddhartha,

None taken. I see where you are coming from.
I have just one more thing that I would like to add
before I jump out of this thread:

"Never confuse the finger pointing at the moon
with the moon itself." -Chinese proverb

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
Siddhartha,

None taken. I see where you are coming from.
I have just one more thing that I would like to add
before I jump out of this thread:

"Never confuse the finger pointing at the moon
with the moon itself." -Chinese proverb

Yeah, often people have come to me like I'm the Buddha himself because I have relayed some wise words. It's something I need to learn myself too.

[linus]

I would add only that the desire or lack of it is a choice, a trade-off and you must first understand what it is you're trading to know if you really even want to.
desirelessness does not promise happiness (which has it's root in happenings), it promises peace. i wonder if the difference is clear. imagine a small child, at school a fellow student calls him stupid and such things ruin his day, indeed, seemingly his life. but when his mother gives him some candy at the store, this gratifies his day and seemingly his life.
as we grow, what ruins our days and seemingly our lives is bills and evictions, but what it takes to brighten our days is sex or stacks of money (or whatever it is for you, the scales are the point, not the objects in particular). what happiness is is the fulfillment of that desire. what peace is is the lack of said desire for happiness.
i'm not so much making a point on the process of becoming desireless, as understanding what desirelessness means. it doesn't meqan that you stop wanting, that is only the side effect. desirelessness is more about non-expectation than actual lack of desire. it is, again a trade off. it is where a person says, "i understand that in order for the balance of the universe to be complete i must have x number of unhappy times in exchange for x number of happy times, i would rather not the exchange at all, and just have peace, neither happy nor sad, but in fact, freedom from the entire concept of happy or sad. i would rather not have expectation, because i understand that if what i expect is fulfilled, then i am happy, which is fleeting and only feeds into a new desire of desiring to maintain this happiness, and i am not interested in fleeting. if what i expect does not come about, then i am disapointed, which leads to the new desire of avoiding said feeling, and i am not intersted in avoidance. i understand that for there to be one, there must be both, and i am not interested in anything that is fleeting."
understanding the above comment is peace in itself. the great irony is that instead of happiness you get joy, the distinction being that happiness is based on the external happenings, and joy comes from within. when a person is desireless (for short) they now have the ability to truley appreciate a thing or activity and not just the feeling associated with it. i hope this makes sense.

[UnaMi]

when one Stops desiring, when one is detached from his desires that doesn't mean he can no longer enjoy things.

One wil no longer desire sex, drugs, love, material things... But that doesn't mean that when one has sex he can not enjoy it, he just not desires it.

The problem in our lives is that we are constantly wanting things, constantly seeking enjoyment. And when we get what we want, then we want the next Thing for enjoyment. This is how we fill our lives.

When we are doing something we don't like, then we desire to stop doing that, and to go do something pleasant. But most of the time, the desire to stop and "wanting to do something else", creates more suffering then the actual act of the unpleasant thing itself.


When 2 men are climbing the mount everest. And one of the two men constantly says to himself :
"Man, I wish this was over. I wanna be at the top, I wanna reach the top. It's cold here, help me. etc..."

And the other man says to himself while climbing:
"how beatiful it is here, and the way the wind numbs my face, its fantastic. The sun here is so beatiful, this is wonderful, etx..."

who do you think suffers the most while climbing, and who will enjoy the Top the most.

The guy who wants the top will think "Did I go trough all this for this!!"

And the other guy will say "After that wonderfull climbing I also get to see this? Wonderfull"


We suffer trough desire, so if we could stop desiring we could enjoy the good times, and don't care for the bad times.

When we would be doing something unpleasant, we would just do it, get it over with, and don't care about the fact that it is unpleasant.

[thefountainhed]

Is want desire?

What if I desire to satisfy a need?

To understand that desire is reality and to accept that reality and desire for enlightenment is good.

A desire for enlightenment is not bad.

[UnaMi]

Originally posted by thefountainhed
Is want desire?

What if I desire to satisfy a need?

To understand that desire is reality and to accept that reality and desire for enlightenment is good.

A desire for enlightenment is not bad.

Your desires cloud your mind, they make the journey much harder and much less pleasant. If you reach the goal at all.

If you desire to satisfy a need, then you are suffering when you cannot fulfill that need. If you are thirsty, by all means, go drink some water. But what if you can't? Then you will suffer!

Havent you been on a long walk somewhere, withouth anything to drink, haven't you suffered becouse of it.
Or when you are working, don't you suffer when you keep looking at the clock, for time to pass. That is becouse you desire to go home.

If you wouldn't desire those things, you would still be happy if you got home, and your work will go alot faster. don't u use this trick: "ndon't look at the clock while working, so time goes faster".

Desire isn't wrong, but when you become a slave to your body's desires, that is wrong.

Enlightment is, in fact to be "free from all desires". So you say desire is a reality, then you obviously don't know what you are talking about, becouse the goal of enlightment is to "stop desiring".

Before you can reach enlightment, you must first change your state of mind, and start to think different. Reprogram your mind!

[UnaMi]

when you are thirsty, you still feel your body is thirsty. But you do not care, your mind does not suffer from it, becouse you don't see your body as yourself. Of course you will go drink some water if you can, becouse you have to take care of your body, but it has nothing to do with yourself.

It is as if you have a son, and he tells you "dad, i have to go drink something, i am realy thirstey" you have no pain at all from his thirst, but you wil still give him something to drink. Becouse else he wil dehydrate, and you don't want that for your son, becouse you love him.

here you are your mind, and your son is your body.

another example:

You have a car, and you like your car, its convienient. You can use it to drive around. You almost cannot exist without it. But when somewone kicks your car, or when you wreck it, do you feel hurt. Not much right, just your wallet. And off course, you can't drive around, but that is not all to bad. But stil, you do go to the garage to get your car tuned once in a while.

That is also a good example i think, of how you should view your mind-body relationship. While you are your mind, and the body is the car, in this example.

Just some examples to give perspective on the theory

[invisibleone]

I am convinced desire is a natural part of being human. It seems unnatural to try and fight it off.

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by invisibleone
I am convinced desire is a natural part of being human. It seems unnatural to try and fight it off.

The trick is to make it a complement to the rest of your goals. Desire unchecked can lead to tragedy.

[linus]

Originally posted by invisibleone
I am convinced desire is a natural part of being human. It seems unnatural to try and fight it off.

has it occured to you that desire is unnatural? that our natural state is that of understanding and not that of wanting? that we are, in fact, through our social distincitons and upbringing living against nature? that going beyond the desire is not a murder, but a free-setting?

[linus]

to say that desire is natural because we have it from very early on in life is like saying that because we are born with very little communication ability and no speaking ability, then it is unnatural to speak or communicate proficiently.

[UnaMi]

its natural for your body to have desires. But there is a difference between you and your body!

Your body's desires are not your own, but you have to decide to fullfil them or not. If you're body is ill, then heal it. But do not mistake, it is not you who is ill, so you have no harm from it. you do it out of care for your body.

[UnaMi]

I do not say that to fight desires is right and good for you. If you belief some other thing, then that is your right.

It is what I and budhist texts state. Nothing more, I say it as I see it, do with it what you will.

[thefountainhed]

Unami,
If I desire enlightenment, it is not wrong. I must first desire enlightment to pursue enlightenment, regardless of what enlightenment is.

Not all desires are bad. It is false to insinuate that. A desire for the virtues is good if that desire is pursued. A desire for the temporal/vices is bad. A desire for the virtues is not bad even when not pursued. How is a desire for world peace bad?