Police Departments: We ... uh ... I guess we lost those guns.

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Danger! Danger! Cops in the Evergreen State Can't Keep Track of Their Military Toys

    It's almost a spectacular lede:

    State records reveal that in the past two years, four law enforcement departments in Washington state have been suspended from the military surplus program known as 1033.

    But let us be clear; Patricia Murphy's report for KUOW pertains primarily to two assault rifles, one each in two different law enforcement departments.

    The government program issues surplus military gear to state and local municipalities who show a need. Under the program, law enforcement agencies can apply to receive everything from Shop-Vacs to mine-resistant vehicles. All they need to pay is the cost of shipping.

    Now some of the weapons have gone missing.

    The East Wenatchee Police Department was suspended from the program in July last year for losing an assault-style M16 rifle. The rifle was eventually found in a locked locker that belonged to a sergeant at the department. The locker had not been opened or used for some time.

    State records show the officer responsible for the weapon was found negligent by the department and was removed from duty as a firearms instructor.

    The Grant County Sherriff's office was suspended from the program in May last year. They, too, were missing an M16 rifle. Sherriff Tom Jones wouldn't comment on the investigation since it's still open with the state patrol.

    State records reveal that it's believed that M16 was stolen. Emails between the department and the state show that the inventory of weapons from the 1033 acquisition were stored on the third floor of the courthouse annex, which had previously been a jail. The weapons were stored in a cell.

    At some point a detective attempted to open the cell and the lock wouldn't function. The detective thought the lock was broken so he cut it and replaced it. It wasn't until sometime later during an inventory that the department realized the rifle was missing.

    At that point it became clear that a more likely scenario was that that original lock was not in fact broken, but replaced by someone who was trying to cover up a theft.

    There are other problems and missing weapons; the Chelan County Sheriff's Department has reported a lost assualt rifle that had been received through the 1033 program, but believes the weapon was actually destroyed. The Ehlwa Tribal Police has also been suspended from the program, though the fact of ETP being a tribal force apparently means their 1033 participation goes through a different federal structure.

    And if one lives in the Evergreen State, the implications can be chilling. The police, according to the State of Washington, have the right to shoot you to death, perjure the police report, and manipulate the physical evidence to support that perjury, and can reasonably expect to not face any criminal charges. Now they're apparently "losing" assault rifles?

    Great. Just fuckin' great, guys. Yeah. We believe you.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Murphy, Patricia. "Several Washington Police Departments Suspended From Surplus Program Over Lost Weapons". KUOW. September 4, 2014. KUOW.org. September 7, 2014. http://kuow.org/post/several-washin...s-suspended-surplus-program-over-lost-weapons
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    And things like this are one of the reasons why I have taken steps to learn to protect myself... if police administration and other functions are, simply put, this dysfunctional... do I really want to rely solely on them for my protection?

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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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  7. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Repeat! And rinse.
     
  8. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn't mind a rifle, myself.
    Doubt anyone would ever die as a result of my having one, but who knows.

    Fact is, Other countries have the right to own guns, and do, but don't seem to have the same rates of murder by gun.
    At which point, one is forced to wonder if the problem in the USA is not the guns, but those who own them.

    But what the hell.
    Put up an SEP field, paint it pink and let the chips fall.
     
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    screw the mattel 16, get a real rifle
     
  10. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    See above.
     
    pjdude1219 likes this.
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    You doubt?

    Not "I know".. See, it's the "doubt" thing that raises my eyebrows into my hairline.

    I have often wondered if it is the culture in the US. Where gun ownership is seen as a right instead of an absolute privilege, people just don't give a shit. There is also the fact that with guns in the picture, people simply resort to that first instead of employing other means of negotiations or problem solving. Who needs problem solving when you can just blast a hole in their heads?

    With a police force that has a shoot first and ask questions later mentality, I would say culture definitely has something to do with it.
     
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    If somebody crosses that threshold and wants something dead, they will use bricks, bats, knives even their bare hands if they have to. It's just the foresight of getting so close in an altercation gives most people a chance to change their mind. Firing or even throwing a projectile at someone isn't something you can take back when you suddenly have that "This wasn't a good idea" moment straight after sending the projectile on an inert course towards a target. (At that point you just hope for having crap aim or some random act stopping it from reaching its' destination)
     
  13. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    I used the words, Bells, because it would be bloody silly to say "never". People who think they know what they'll do in any given situation make me laugh.
    So you've got a rifle in your room, someone is stalking your family with a knife... and you're going to try to wrestle them because shooting them would be morally repugnant to you?
    Uh huh. I'd be concerned if you even stopped to weigh up your moral options, to be honest.

    As to culture, it almost definitely is. Hell, even my sister has a goddamned rifle up here in Darwin, and she HATES guns. It's for the dingos, you see. Lots of people own them, in Australia - far more than the official numbers indicate. You saw how many were handed in during the amnesty - now imagine how many weren't. Probably only about half are licensed up here - and yet, we don't have people shooting each other all the time. Hardly ever, really. The crocs probably give gun deaths a run for their money in terms of total fatalities (not really, but you know... have to make it sound good).

    Our cops don't generally shoot people, either. Very rarely is there a situation reported in which the cops are completely and utterly wrong. Even that idiot Muslim kid had the opportunity to knife two cops the other day before they finally took him down... and that mob is still saying he was just a kid who made a mistake. Really. Knifing two cops is a teenage mistake... people surely have some tenuous grip on reality sometimes. Thousands of mourners all turning up at a mosque and hating the police force for shooting a kid who'd already knifed two of them... what a bunch of tools.
    Difference being, Bells, that in the USA, a guy gets shot for reaching into his car for a licence. Here, two have to be knifed before we open fire.

    Both police forces carry guns. That's a cultural difference.

    So culture is a extremely large part of it. and placing controls on guns is not the answer, only a measure. Problem with measures, is that people have a tendency to think of them as answers. I've touched on that before.
    You have all these people up there effin' and blindin' and swearing blue that getting rid of the guns will solve America's problems. It won't. But they'll think it has; and to me, that's a problem in itself.
     
  14. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
    Yes, Stryder, we all know that. The difference here is that I'm speaking of countries other than America, who do have high rates of gun ownership - and yet proportionately less murder rates by gun.

    See, what we're talking about here is the fact that, in other countries, people own guns and don't use them on other people (as much).
    The problem is rocks in the head, not guns. Take all the guns away, and sure - you'll reduce the murder rates.
    Won't reduce the amount of stupid, violent people though.

    Imposing gun controls is a bit like sweeping the dirt under the rug when the rellies come over.
     
  15. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    What countries?
     
  16. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Canada, Australia, Switzerland...

    And don't start on about how the gun ownership rates are less - we all know that.
    But in those countries, while the rate of gun ownership might be proportionally 50% less, the murder rates are 500% less. Or whatever. Figures are out there, all you need to know how to do is read a graph - they're skewed, where America is concerned. Completely out of proportion to the rest of the world, particularly those western countries with "high" gun ownership rates.

    We've covered this ground before. Firearms are a tool often used to kill, yes - but the root problem lies in the willingness of those who own them to pull the triggers.
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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  18. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    For what? A particularly large and aggressive elephant?
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    That's a good mile out
     
  20. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Probably a good three or four. Probably want to add a decent sight to it though.

    Whats your point?
    Think I missed his? He didn't really have one, you know, that hadn't already been covered.
    Pictures don't say anything more than Lolcats do. And only now do they serve to replace words.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    A lot of people who want guns shouldn't have them.

    A lot of people who can be trusted with guns don't want them.
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I ain't looking forward to seeing a cop with an assault rifle.
    Special
    Weapons
    And
    Tactics
    and training
    seriously
    training

    without the T
    SWAT is just SWA
    ......................................
    maybe actually better that they lost the weapons
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    They aren't, in general. Canada has gun ownership rates equivalent to the US, even higher in some regions.
     

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