Is the universe an expanding ball?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Spellbound, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. Spellbound Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Or is it infinite, making it impossible to conceive? If it is a ball, then what is outside of that ball? If it is infinite, then does that mean it is homogeneous and does not progress nor digress towards entropy?
     
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  3. river

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    Infinite , in its existence

    So far the Universe is amorphous

    The Universe recycles
     
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  5. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Likely neither. It does not have to be infinite to be unbounded. You should read the wiki on the big bang theory.
     
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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    One conceptual problem with the current theory that space-time is expanding (due to dark energy), and the material of the universe is following the lead, is why doesn't the expansion of space-time also cause the four forces that bind matter to change with time by impacting bond distances? For example, say we have a molecule of water, floating alone in space-time. It is experiencing space-time expanding around it. Why doesn't this stretch the bonds since the matter particles are invariant, but distance is expanding over time?

    The theory for the expansion of the universe uses space-time expansion to separate matter into a greater volume, so gaps appear in the universe. If we extrapolate this, to other forms of matter attraction, matter should be gaining potential energy due to baseline bond stretching. This would be due to the indirect input of dark energy. The ground state will be higher as time and space moves forward due to more distances between. In terms of chemical matter, the higher ground state means electron transitions appear red shifted, since they can't fall as low, due to the expansion of bonding space-time.

    Or is chemical bonding energy stronger than dark energy and exempt from space-time expansion? This is important because it addresses the entropy problem since expansion bonds open up new areas of entropy. Are these observed or why not?
     
  8. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    For the at leat the 10th time, THE OBSERVED EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE IS NOT DUE TO DARK MATTER.

    The expansion of the universe is not even strong enough to overcome gravity let alone the weak, strong and elecromagnetic forces.

    No see above.

    Dark energy is not about the obsevered expansion (11th)

    Bonds lengths do not change see response #2.

    Chemical bonds are stronger than the expansion of space.

    What entropy problem? See response #2
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    According to the BB theory, the Universe/spacetime is all that is or ever will be.
    Since all that we see now, [all of spacetime/Universe] was once confined to within the volume of an atomic nucleus, the BB is said to have happened everywhere at the same instant.
    Like the surface of a ball, the Universe can be bounded and finite.
    But that analogy has limitations, as WMAP has shown us that the Universe is topologically flat....That is the angles of a triangle will always add up to 180 degrees.
    Saying the Universe is flat topologically speaking, and having data that confirms that the expansion is accelerating, we can only conclude that we will continue to expand forever.





    We have no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the Universe recycles.
    That is just speculation.
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    DE, and the expansion of the Universe are evident only over larger scales, out to the edges of our Observable Universe......Over smaller scales, gravity rules and is responsible for galactic groupings such as our local group of galaxies, stellar systems, Stars and planets etc......over even smaller scales, such as you and me, and molecules and atoms, the strong, weak nuclear forces, plus the EMF are dominant.

    The rest of your post, is just the usual rather weird interpretation that you are known for.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Best described as philosophical claptrap.
     
  12. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    Imaginary time.
     
  13. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    It has been thought that if the curvature of the universe was positive it would be like a ball and if it was negative then it would be more like a saddle shape. It was also thought that if the cosmological constant increased it would be a saddle and if it decreased it would be more like a ball. Then they awarded a Nobel Prize for finding a more accurate value of the cosmological constant and found it was increasing. Then they maintained that the universe was flat like a plane, and they didn't recognize any work on universal curvature and the overall shape of the universe. It had also been thought that if the universe was large enough it could either be a sphere or a saddle and we wouldn't be able to notice it. A small section of either shape could have a topology that was relatively flat and we wouldn't be able to notice. Then it is still up for debate. No one seems to know for sure really. The universe could really be any shape you want. The downside of it is that it would just have to be so large that the shape itself doesn't really influence things on relatively smaller scales. Personally, I have always believed that the universe was closed or spherical, because I think it is the only way it could have had positive feedback that could trigger the Big Bang. It wouldn't actually be a sphere. It would have to be a higher dimensional sphere or a hypersphere.

    As for the homogeneousness of the universe and entropy, the expansion of the universe doesn't act like a normal explosion. It is more homogeneous than it should be if it was just like any other type of natural explosion. Higher dimensional physics of a sphere expanding and the universe being depicted on the surface of that sphere makes a more accurate depiction of the Big Bang and cosmological expansion. It really doesn't follow the normal laws of entropy in four dimensional spacetime.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Cosmologists are pretty confident that the Universe is flat, to within very small error margins, as detailed by WMAP.
    And the discovery of the accelerated expansion rate would almost certainly dismiss the closed option I would think.


    The homegeneous and Isotropic nature of the Universe is explained by Inflation...no higher dimensions needed.
     
  15. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    This is a great video (it's short)!

    Misconceptions about the Universe
     
  16. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the theory of inflation assumes that there are higher dimensions and a greater multiverse. You can't have a multiverse without higher dimensions... You should really stop pretending like you know something about the subject. It is appallingly obvious that you just have a nostalgic point of view of what little you know about it.
     
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, not true, just that simple. Read about inflation.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I have no bubble to burst, and no agenda to push, except that of science, the scientific method and peer review.
    And you obviously fail all three and can only wildly speculate in the absence of evidenced based scientific theory and knowledge..
     
  19. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely unbelievable, I think every paper on inflation mentions a multiverse and that all inflation is eternal inflation.
    I seriously doubt you have ever used the scientific method to publish anything for peer review... Don't forget, this is just a web forum. It doesn't count. I am a philosopher at heart. To do that, you have to question things. If you accept everything as fact, then no new ideas will ever come from it. A comatose state of nostalgia doesn't count as using the scientific method, and the people here don't count as a peer review.
     
  20. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Oh crap, I didn't mean dark matter I meant dark energy!
     
  21. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Eternal Inflation doesn't need to assume higher dimensions for the inflation events to occur. Why don't you actually learn what the theoretical model predicts.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Again, Higher dimensions are not needed. Get it?


    Oh, I agree. Which is why the forum is full of "would be's if they could be's", and alternative pushers burdened with delusions of grandeur. These are the only outlet, that they have.


    Science is what we know: Philosophy is what we don't know:
    Bertrand Russell.

    And to ignore the giants of the past and present, just to promote that false sense of grandeur of being able to think for one's self is even dumber.
     
  23. matterdoc Registered Senior Member

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    Advent of theory of universal attraction due to gravity necessitated that all matter in the universe accumulate at one point. This is against common sense and direct observation. In order to overcome this conundrum, few clever scientists invented the phenomenon of expanding universe and supporting mathematical theories. Other than this, there is no need for universe to expand. Supposition of ball-shaped universe is a part of invention.
     

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