Sockpuppets... Who are they?

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by Sarkus, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Hi, a suggestion / question - not sure if it has been raised before:

    When a sockpuppet is discovered, and subsequently banned (or even if not) should there not be a list somewhere of who the sockpuppet belonged to?
    There is nothing more frustrating than conversing with a relative newcomer in a thread, only to see them being banned for being a sockpuppet, but with no idea who they are/were to be able to pick up the conversation on their return (if ever).

    Perhaps the mods should specifically name the owner of the puppet in the ban description? Some seem to, but it would be helpful if this became SOP, please?
     
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  3. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    There is a such a list, but it's in the modforum.
    I agree that it would be good policy to name the 'puppeteer' in the ban description. I think I have done that in the past but, to be honest, I can't be certain. I will make sure to do it from now on.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Changing Standards

    Actually, I expect the bar for identifying and convicting a sock puppet is about to go way the hell up.
     
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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Why?
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that we should identify sock puppets by their previous name, because that's probably what the puppeteers want once their socks are recognised and they are banned. It gives them a continuity on the forum that they obviously crave, or else they wouldn't create socks in the first place.

    In the case of persistent, repetitive sock creators, the best thing to do is to actually delete all of the posts from the sock. It's the only way to try to drive home the message that a permanent ban is actually permanent.
     
  9. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    That has been my experience and makes sense from game/economic theory.
     
  10. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    James, have you asked rpenner to be a moderator yet?
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There's another option that can work - hellbanning. It is sometimes used for repeat offenders. Once the user is hellbanned, they can still post all they like, but only they can see their own posts. (Or only they and the mods can see their posts.) Thus they have no incentive to create still more sock puppets, since as far as they can tell, they can still post.

    It's not too hard to figure it out - just create yet another username and see if you can see the posts. But I've seen it work surprisingly well, since many sock puppet creators aren't very sophisticated.
     
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Fair enough for those trying to evade permanent bans.

    But for those avoiding temporary bans, I think including their primary name would help... as at some point, until the ban is made permanent, they will probably be coming back, and conversations can continue.
     
  13. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    This hell banning reminds me of my idea of letting people know whose ignore list they are on. I mention it again because I really think it will work well. Nevermind that the ignored person might still appear in a quote. That's not important, and may rarely occur.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    Well if they are creating a sockpuppet to see if they can read their own posts, then it will defeat the purpose, since the moment they realise no one else can see their posts, they will simply create another sockpuppet.

    While it sounds like a good option on paper, in the end, those individuals will still be creating sockpuppets.

    And for some former members, creating sockpuppets has become their past-time. It's a game for them.
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn't that just create a sub-culture of those trying to get on most people's ignore list before getting banned... it gives them an objective... a purpose... that runs counter to those of the site?
     
  16. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    No, I don't think they actually want to be ignored. If they are on someone's ignore list it means that person (probably someone thy are antagonizing) is paying them no attention.
     
  17. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I know what it means to be on someone's ignore list... I have ignored a number of people in my time here.
    My point is that if people are kept informed of who's ignoring them then a subculture may develop of trying to get as many on that list as possible. Obviously those that don't want to be ignored will not be part of this subculture, so your point is somewhat irrelevant.
     
  18. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Of course you understand what it means to ignore someone. However, I don't think I'm being irrelevant when I attempt to answer your question. Again, it's hard t imagine people so desperate for what? Non-attention? That they would actually form a sub-culture of trying to get as many on that list as possible. What would that entail? A subculture suggests a group.So a group of trolls who actually boast to one another about how many people are not reading their posts??? Sounds pretty far-fetched to me, or at any rate nothing for us sane people who come here to discuss science and stuff to worry about.

    My suggestion of having 'public ignore lists' I think would decrease much of the mods' labors, as the forum would become more self-regulating. A certain troll would see that the person or group he is deliberately provoking is paying him no heed, and he will cease his activities. It's that simple. In another thread some moderator said it would be a great effort to fix it so that the ignored person's quotes cannot be seen by the persons ignoring them, but I maintain it would not matter if such were seen. That's all.
     
  19. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    I note that once again we are having a hard time figuring out who a troll actually is and what exactly they are about.

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    The ignore function is for persons who lack self control and anger easily. Public notice of such a list would be trolling/baiting/insulting, IMHO. Would certainly make for more trouble.

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    My stance is that I am of value to the community and what I say has meaning. I attempt civility with everyone. The very worst thing I can do to a site and its membership is to leave and not come back. If I quit speaking with someone it is for cause (they want to fight, they are insulting, ignorant, arrogant, post up spam etc) and it is their loss, not mine.
     
  20. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    What i meant by public is that the ignored person could see he is on someone's ignore list, should he click onto it. Who would even read a public, public ignore list anyway ? only a hopeless troll.
     
  21. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    A slightly disingenuous ad hom there.

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    I guess I was not sufficiently clear in my earlier statement.

    Calling someone a "troll" is much like calling them any other insulting name. Name calling is not profitable to any concerned. A real troll would hack your machine and melt the hard drive right out the back before you had a clue anything out of the ordinary was going on. What we have here are a few individuals that desire extraordinary attention and get that with emotional arguments, unrealistic or outrageous statements, demands, insults and the like.

    Some clever individuals make comments or pose questions that elicit a very strong response from some other members while appearing innocuous on the surface. Some members pose as being of the opposite sex or as adults when they are children or as normal people when they are really FBI agents looking for pedophiles. This can also be "trolling", but there is no actual, real, top - notch trolling going on here. Yeah, a few children messing with the old folks, a couple of persons that are slightly over the rainbow or post when drunk/stoned, but otherwise this is a very tame site. Why? It is actually pretty dull and predictable. The big trouble comes from 'the usual suspects' and that is predictable as well...personal insults, religious crap, cussing and the like. Very tame overall and certainly not worth this much debate.

    Again - the ignore function is for those who lack self control. Making your little ignore list "public" in any way will add insult to your emotional response and create more trouble for all concerned. This even if the only person who knows that you have put them on your ignore list is the person that you have done that to. You hit them back and only they know that you have done that.

    Disingenuous indeed.
     
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I wouldn't suggest that Troll and Techno-Evangelistic Black hat Hackers are one in the same. Trolls attempt to attack people through emotional retorts, to force them to respond irrationally, If a black hat was melting your hard-drive, it would likely take them months of study of both the subject and the type of attack which takes far more commitment than a troll.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. But since they can see their own posts, they do not realize that they are hellbanned for some time. It tends to stop the dumb ones completely, and slows down the rate that the smarter ones create sock puppets.
    It has worked quite well on our forum. YMMV.
     

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