How many times do republicans need to be proven wrong before they lose all credibilit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Republicans have been so wrong, so frequently, it is difficult t understand how they could retain any degree of credibility. I guess it all boils down to religion and cognitive biases. Republicans will believe what they want regardless of facts and reason just as any religious zealot remains blind to fact and reason.

    Let’s look at some of the many things republicans have been wrong on:

    By Sean McElwee

    April 23, 2014 9:00 AM ET

    The great 20th-century economist John Maynard Keynes has been widely quoted as saying, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" Sadly, in their quest to concentrate economic and political power in the hands of the wealthiest members of society, today's Republicans have held the opposite position – as the evidence has piled up against them, they continue spreading the same myths. Here are six simple facts about the economy that Republicans just can't seem to accept:

    1. The Minimum Wage Doesn't Kill Jobs.

    The Republican story on the minimum wage takes the inordinately complex interactions of the market and makes them absurdly simple. Raise the price of labor through a minimum wage, they claim, and employers will hire fewer workers. But that's not how it works. In the early Nineties, David Card and Alan Krueger found "no evidence that the rise in New Jersey's minimum wage reduced employment at fast-food restaurants in the state." Since then, international, national and state-level studies have replicated these findings – most recently in a study by three Berkeley economists. Catherine Ruetschlin, a policy analyst at Demos, has argued that a higher minimum wage would actually "boost the national economy" by giving workers more money to spend on goods and services. The most comprehensive meta-study of the minimum wage examined 64 studies and found "little or no evidence" that a higher minimum wage reduces employment. There is however, evidence that a higher minimum wage lifts people out of poverty. Raise away!

    2. The Stimulus Created Millions of Jobs.

    In the aftermath of the 2007 recession, President Obama invested in a massive stimulus. The Republican belief that markets are always good and government is always bad led them to argue that diverting resources to the public sector this way would have disastrous results. They were wrong: The stimulus worked, with the most reliable studies finding that it created millions of jobs. The fact that government stimulus works – long denied by Republicans (at least, when Democrats are in office) – is a consensus among economists, with only 4 percent arguing that unemployment would have been lower without the stimulus and only 12 percent arguing that the costs outweigh the benefits.

    3. Taxing The Rich Doesn't Hurt Economic Growth.

    Republicans believe that the wealthy are the vehicles of economic growth. Starting with Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, they tried cutting taxes on the rich in order to unleash latent economic potential. But even the relatively conservative Martin Feldstein has acknowledged that investment is driven by demand, not supply; if there are viable investments to be made, they will be made regardless of tax rates, and if there are no investments to be made, cutting taxes is merely pushing on a string. Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, two of the eminent economists of inequality, find no correlation between marginal tax rates and economic growth.

    In fact, what hurts economic growth most isn't high taxes – it's inequality. Two recent IMF papers confirm what Keynesian economists like Joseph Stiglitz have long argued: Inequality reduces the incomes of the middle class, and therefore demand, which in turn stunts growth. To understand why, imagine running a car dealership. Would you prefer if 1 person in your time owned 99% of the wealth and the rest of the population had nothing, or if wealth was distributed more equally, so that more people could purchase your cars?

    Every other country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has far lower levels of inequality than the United States. Since there are no economic benefits of inequality, why hasn't the right conceded the argument? Because it's based on class interest, not empirical evidence.

    4. Global Warming is Caused by Humans.

    Even as global warming is linked to more and more extreme weather events, more than 56 percent of Republicans in the current congress deny man-made global warming. In fact, the infamous Lutz memo shows that Republicans have actually created a concerted campaign to undermine the science of global warming. In the leaked memo, Frank Lutz, a Republican consultant, argues that, "The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science."

    In truth, the science of global warming is not up for debate. James Powell finds that over a one year period, 2,258 articles on global warming were published by 9,136 authors. Of those, only one, from the Herald of the Russian Academy of Sciences, rejected man-made global warming. That one article was likely motivated by the Russian government's interest in exploiting arctic shale. Another, even more comprehensive study, examining 11,944 studies over a 10-year period, finds that 97 percent of scientists accepted the scientific consensus that man-made global warming is occurring.

    This is not an abstract academic debate. The effects of climate change will be devastating, and poor countries will be hurt the worst. We've already seen the results. Studies have linked global warming to Hurricane Sandy, droughts and other extreme weather events. More importantly, doing nothing will end up being far more expensive than acting now. One study suggests it could wipe out 3.2% of global GDP annually.

    5. The Affordable Care Act is Working

    President Obama's centrist healthcare bill was informed by federalism (delegating power to the states) and proven technocratic reforms (like a board to help doctors discern which treatments would be most cost-effective). Republicans, undeterred, decried it as Soviet-style communism based on "death panels" – never mind the fact that the old system, which rationed care based on income, is the one that left tens of thousands of uninsured people to die.

    From the beginning, Republicans have predicted disastrous consequences or Obamacare, none of which came true. They predicted that the ACA would add to the deficit; in fact, it will reduce the deficit. They claimed the exchanges would fail to attract the uninsured; they met their targets. They said only old people would sign up; the young came out in the same rates as in Massachusetts. They predicted the ACA would drive up healthcare costs; in fact it is likely holding cost inflation down, although it's still hard to discern how much of the slowdown was due to the recession. In total, the ACA will ensure that 26 million people have insurance in 2024 who would have been uninsured otherwise.

    It's worth noting that every time the CBO estimates how much Obamacare will cost, the number gets lower. Odd how we've never heard Republicans say that.

    6. Rich people are no better than the rest of us.

    Politicians on the right like to pretend that having money is a sign of hard work and morality – and that not having money is a sign of laziness. This story is contradicted by human experience and many religious traditions (Jesus tells a graphic story about a rich man who refused to help the poor burning in hell). But it's also contradicted by the facts – more and more rich people are getting their money through inheritances, and science shows that they are no more benevolent than others.

    More and more, the wealthy in America are second or third generation. For instance, the Walton family, heirs to the Walmart fortune, own more wealth than the poorest 40 million Americans. Thomas Philippon and Ariell Reshef have found that 30 to 50 percent of the wage difference between the financial sector and the rest of the private sector was due to unearned "rent," or money they gained through manipulating markets. Josh Bivens and Larry Mishel found the same thing for CEOs – their increased pay hasn't been correlated to performance.

    If rich people haven't really earned their money, are they at least doing any good with it? Studies find that the wealthy actually give less to charity as a proportion of their income than middle-class Americans, even though they can afford more. Worse, they use their supposed philanthropy to avoid taxes and finance pet projects. Research by Paul Piff finds that the wealthy are far more likely to exhibit narcissistic tendencies. "The rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people," Piff recently told New York magazine. "It makes them more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes."
    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...icans-believe-is-wrong-20140423#ixzz36ovVercD

    Triumph of the Wrong?
    By PAUL KRUGMAN

    Published: October 11, 2012 757 Comments

    In these closing weeks of the campaign, each side wants you to believe that it has the right ideas to fix a still-ailing economy. So here’s what you need to know: If you look at the track record, the Obama administration has been wrong about some things, mainly because it was too optimistic about the prospects for a quick recovery. But Republicans have been wrong about everything.

    About that misplaced optimism: In a now-notorious January 2009 forecast, economists working for the incoming administration predicted that by now most of the effects of the 2008 financial crisis would be behind us, and the unemployment rate would be below 6 percent. Obviously, that didn’t happen.

    Why did the administration get it wrong? It wasn’t exaggerated faith in the power of its stimulus plan; the report predicted a fairly rapid recovery even without stimulus. Instead, President Obama’s people failed to appreciate something that is now common wisdom among economic analysts: severe financial crises inflict sustained economic damage, and it takes a long time to recover.

    This same observation, of course, offers a partial excuse for the economy’s lingering weakness. And the question we should ask given this unpleasant reality is what policies would offer the best prospects for healing the damage. Mr. Obama’s camp argues for an active government role; his last major economic proposal, the American Jobs Act, would have tried to accelerate recovery by sustaining public spending and putting money in the hands of people likely to use it. Republicans, on the other hand, insist that the path to prosperity involves sharp cuts in government spending.

    And Republicans are dead wrong.

    The latest devastating demonstration of that wrongness comes from the International Monetary Fund, which has just released its World Economic Outlook, a report combining short-term prediction with insightful economic analysis. This report is a grim and disturbing document, telling us that the world economy is doing significantly worse than expected, with rising risks of global recession. But the report isn’t just downbeat; it contains a careful analysis of the reasons things are going so badly. And what this analysis concludes is that a disproportionate share of the bad news is coming from countries pursuing the kind of austerity policies Republicans want to impose on America.

    O.K., it doesn’t say that in so many words. What the report actually says is: “Activity over the past few years has disappointed more in economies with more aggressive fiscal consolidation plans.” But that amounts to the same thing.

    For leading Republicans have very much tied themselves to the view that slashing spending in a depressed economy — “fiscal consolidation,” in I.M.F.-speak — is good, not bad, for job creation. Soon after the midterm elections, the new Republican majority in the House of Representatives issued a manifesto on economic policy — titled, “Spend less, owe less, grow the economy” — that called for deep spending cuts right away and pooh-poohed the whole notion that fiscal consolidation (yes, it used the same term) might deepen the economy’s slump. “Non-Keynesian effects,” the manifesto declared, would make everything all right.

    Well, that turns out not to be remotely true. What the monetary fund shows is that the countries pursing the biggest spending cuts are also the countries that have experienced the deepest economic slumps. Indeed, the evidence suggests that in brushing aside the standard view that spending cuts hurt the economy in the short run, the G.O.P. got it exactly wrong. Recent spending cuts appear to have done even more harm than most analysts — including those at the I.M.F. itself — expected.

    Which brings us to the question of what form economic policies will take after the election.

    If Mr. Obama wins, he’ll presumably go back to pushing for modest stimulus, aiming to convert the gradual recovery that seems to be under way into a more rapid return to full employment.

    Republicans, however, are committed to an economic doctrine that has proved false, indeed disastrous, in other countries. Nor are they likely to change their views in the light of experience. After all, facts haven’t gotten in the way of Republican orthodoxy on any other aspect of economic policy. The party remains opposed to effective financial regulation despite the catastrophe of 2008; it remains obsessed with the dangers of inflation despite years of false alarms. So it’s not likely to give up its politically convenient views about job creation.

    And here’s the thing: if Mitt Romney wins the election, the G.O.P. will surely consider its economic ideas vindicated. In other words, politically good things may be about to happen to very bad ideas. And if that’s how it plays out, the American people will pay the price. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/opinion/krugman-triumph-of-the-wrong.html?_r=0


    The list of what republicans have gotten wrong is going to be a very long list indeed. Perhaps I should have asked, what have republicans gotten right. It would be a much shorter list.

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    And I haven't even touched on the foreign policies debacles like Iraq and Afghanistan. When I look at the Republican Party, I am just amazed at how demonstrably wrong a political party can be on virtually everything so often and for so long. I guess it boils down to religion and money both of which the party has in abundance. Economic royalists have no use for little things like truth and honesty or the welfare of the common man.
     
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  3. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Democrats have sexual activity with Interns.

    See Joe, I can make blanket statements too that lump all Dems into a single mold.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Unfortunately the same goes for democrats.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well good for you. You fit right in with your republican friends. But this isn't about blanket statements. This is about demonstrable facts.
     
  8. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a registered Republican. Can you demonstrate that I believe what I want, regardless of the facts? That I'm blind to fact and reason?
     
  9. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    4,098
    Historically this Prez will go down as the Jackie Robinson of american politics. And this 'form of republicanism' will be remembered for it's intellectual dishonesty and public racism.

    Keep writing the great posts joepistole.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Regardless of your ego, you are not the Republican Party. You are 1 out of 95.7 million American who claim to be republican. You are not the Republican Party. Are you telling me you acknowledge your party's many errors, but you still support them?

    The facts are Republicans, the Republican Party and its leaders have been wrong about virtually everything. Where are the Obamacare death panels? We have had the best job creation numbers in many years. Were is the much promised Obamacare job killing? And the list goes on.
     
  11. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    You said "Republicans" in the quote I just posted. I am a Republican, so I fall under your blanket statements about "Republicans."

    If you are not talking about Republican people, who are you talking about when you say "Republicans"?
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    This Republican Party has been radicalized by the republican entertainment industry. They can't win primary elections without the republican entertainment industry and they can't win national elections with them nor could they govern with the radicalism fomented by republican entertainers like Limbaugh, Levin, and Hannity.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Are you Republicans? Are you more than one? If you believe Republicans are right about something, now is the time to say it. Else you can just go along being a republican supporter, supporting republican ideology and policy you know is wrong and won't wortk.
     
  14. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    I am one of many "Republicans." When you say "Republicans" you are talking about each individual Republican. All of them!
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, no. Perhaps you flunked English. I am still waiting to hear from you one thing you think republicans have gotten right.
     
  16. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Several times, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China today?

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  17. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    all you did was make a snide comment about clinton. and if you seriously think clinton's impeachment was something the right got right my god have mercy on all our souls
     
  18. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    It was any old statement to make the point that Joe labeled me under his blanket statements about RepublicanS. You missed the point!
     
  19. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    They have figured out how to stop president Obama from actually being able to implement policies that might help us get back on track. I'm not sure if that counts as getting something right though...
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    What do you think this thread is about? I suggest you read the OP.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    #NotAllRepublicans

    This sort of pedantry is useless. You know how many times we hear that "Democrats" this or that? But, oh, hey, since it's now "Republicans", let's all pretend we're stupid and forget about that.

    Furthermore, one problem people have with your sort of hair-splitting is that many Republicans I've known who have tried that line still vote for the objectionable people and principles.

    So they can tell us #NotAllRepublicans, and all that, but if they're still voting for the Palins and Perrys and Walkers and Scotts, still arguing that women should have less rights than people, and voting and campaigning for Christian supremacism, you know, if it comes down to believing what one says when it conflicts with what does, the sales pitch just doesn't work.

    Alright, I will start formulating the "Motor Daddy Republican Protection Act", which will in turn be applied equally, to everybody's posts. And when people start complaining about the number of yellow and red flags handed out, they will be directed to take it up with you.

    Sound good?

    Or would we be better off if you would just stop trolling the thread with useless pedantry?
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    No. You missed it. You seem to see the word ALL where it isn't. I do wish people would use the words some, many & most much more in this type of thing yet it does not say ALL & it does not mean all. It implies most. It is not language at its very best yet far from the worst. It is unbelievable that you did not understand it.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's time to get back to the OP. How can Republicans be so wrong so often and retain any degree of credibility?
     

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