God knows all.!!!

Discussion in 'Religion' started by cluelusshusbund, May 22, 2014.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I got the idea for this thred topic from the link below.!!!

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...amp-religion&p=3193023&viewfull=1#post3193023

    An my queston is... woudnt God know who was evil even befor he put his creation plan into action... anybody.???
     
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  3. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Punish the sin, not the sinner. People are granted an endless amount of opportunities to reform. Even the most 'evil' person is capable of genuine remorse. You may not believe so, but God knows different. Then there's free will. God did not create us to be a race of obedient automatons. We must choose goodness on our own, or it means nothing.
     
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  5. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not religious but I went to a Christian Church for a few years. The main message to get to Heaven is that you had to truly believe in God to get to Heaven. Belief means Heaven, and no belief means no Heaven, period! Your actions are not even considered!
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    That is a very traditional (and old) viewpoint. Some churches do still believe in that... then again, the Catholic church has some traditions and "rules" that are so archaic as to be laughable. *shrugs* To each their own I suppose
     
  8. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    The original question was:

    So wouldn't God also know who truly believes beforehand? Same answer!

    People are granted an endless amount of opportunities to reform. Even the most 'evil' person is capable of genuine remorse. You may not believe so, but God knows different. Then there's free will. God did not create us to be a race of obedient automatons. We must choose goodness on our own, or it means nothing.

    I think your actions are considered, as C.S. Lewis wrote, what would we think of the man who only joined the French Resistance on the day the Nazis departed from Paris? What would he think of himself?

    Another common answer is that both are needed, and it often is taught whether it was presented to you or not.
     
  9. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    It is not a Catholic Church and it's very modern in this area, anyway. It was a born again Christian Church. BTW, I happen to really like the senior pastor, Chuck. Everything except the god thing...

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    http://www.crossroads.org/
     
  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting. They claim to be non-denominational as well. I have to say, the ways in which they actively impact their community is nothing short of impressive. They have a council of elders though... that worries me because such things can easily cause a church (or any organization really) to become mired in the fight of "Well this is how we've always done it" vs "well this is better or more effective"... *shrugs* As i said, to each their own

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  11. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Yeah, like when God drowned the entire planet! If that ain't mercy...

    Except people who are sentenced to death, or life in prison.

    Except people who aren't, like sociopaths and psychopaths.

    And you, as you're so eager to remind us, have God on speed dial, which is how you know all of this stuff nobody else does.

    Except we're not given a choice. It's either do what he says, or suffer and die (or die and sufffer). And when the entire world said, "nah, we like our way better," he didn't let them live with the decision; he flooded the earth and killed everyone. So, again, there is no choice.
     
  12. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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  13. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Many religious people think that God is all knowing even to the point that he knows every aspect of the future. If the future is known then your actions cannot change the future and you have no free will it is all preordained. When these people are questoned about this it is quite humorous to watch the arm waving to explain how the future is set in stone but you still have free will. The truth obviously is that they are mutually exclusive.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily - I rather like the idea of the multiverse theory - that every choice and every possible outcome exists all at once in varying different degrees of the multiverse. Thus, it would be possible to know not THE outcome of a situation, but ALL of the POSSIBLE outcomes.

    It's a rather quaint idea if I do say so myself

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  15. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I had thought of that too, but that means of course that God then would not know which outcome would occur so that he would not actually know the future.


    This whole idea of God being all knowing is more of a recent thing anyway. In the old testament God would get angry and was clearly surprised by the actions of people time and time again, he was the creator and head dude of the universe but he did know EVERYTHING.
     
  16. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    I am a Christian, if that's who you mean, and I don't know any one who holds the view you describe. And you are not being clear, when you say 'they' are not mutually exclusive -what is it that is not mutually exclusive?
     
  17. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...amp-religion&p=3193472&viewfull=1#post3193472

    What caused Adam to choose to sin.???
     
  18. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Christianity covers a huge spectrum. The people that I have talked to that hold that view were different Christians, but that is probably because most the people I know are Christians. I certainly do not think all Christians have that belief. Sorry about not being clear, the "they" I was talking about was a predestined future and free will.
     
  19. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Ironically enough it wasn't his fault. He didn't know right from wrong until he ate the apple, then it was too late! Sort of a holy catch 22.
     
  20. sunshaker Registered Member

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    There is always a balance,
    View attachment 7122
    If you believe in God/Devil, You will more than likely believe in Heaven and Hell, These are balances, Pure evil (hell), Supreme goodness (heaven),

    Now god and the devil play the game of balance, If god does something good the devil will do something equally bad, They play the game of balance and find a compromise they can both live with, We are in one of their games now.
    God controls birth the devil controls death, God as the upper hand in this game. Last time out the devil played his trump card "bang" went the dinosaurs.

    We are given a choice to how we play the cards we are dealt, Do you listen to the demon on your left shoulder or the angel on your right.

    But then again I am a Multiverse Man, And believe we are all god, all existing within each other, Our physical form a projection of our internal balance, All looking out into this shared experience.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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  22. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    In tradition that were two trees in the garden of Eden, at the time of Adam and Eve. The tree of knowledge of good and evil would teach one what is good and evil, via law. The tree of life, takes a different approach. It was not about laws of good and evil, but was analogous to instinct and life where things happen based on a larger picture of highly integrated eco-systems. It is not about good and evil (2-D) but is neutral and 3-D.. The lions kills, but this is not evil, but is part of life since it provides food and helps to maintain system wide balance.

    If you read Genesis of the bible, God did not want humans to play god, using manmade laws of good and evil (it was the forbidden fruit). That was Satan's tree, which is why this was not God's first choice. Law is what Satan was selling, not what God was selling.

    There is confusion about the role of Satan and his relationship with God, due to traditions. Satan was originally Lucifer, the morning star. In bible tradition, Satan was way up in the power structure, and is within the council of God before Eden, all the way until revelations.

    In the New testament, written after the death of Christ, Satan was still in heaven, pushing man made laws of good and evil by which one could condemn innocent people. It was against the law to be a Christian.

    The forces of evil in the heavenly realm, were still there after Christ had died. Revelations anticipates Satan eventually being thrown out of heaven, but it is not clear, if revelations has occurred yet, since so many things never happened. If Satan was still in heaven, he would be acting as intermediary, between God and human, via law of good and evil.

    Since the tree of knowledge of good and evil or law, is Satan's tree, God left humans in the hand of his general. The analogy is the president has members of his cabinet. Each person in the cabinet has assigned tasks, with each person given flexibility to enforce the rules and laws as long as they meet the milestones of the administration. Satan is/was in the cabinet of God, with his assignment connected to the advancement of humans, via law. At revelations this will change, with law becoming very earthy.

    Picture if humans, via Satan, decided to use man-made law of good and evil to define the future evolution of animals. We may decide to define all animal killing as evil, since the poor fuzzy critter is in pain. This law means we must punish all the natural predators if they are found in violation. That will impact the entire eco-system causing unforeseen death, even among the prey animals due to overpopulation and disease. Humans don't always think these things through, but act on emotions. This is not God's will, but rather human choice to serve Satan as their intermediate; Czar on charge of manmade law.

    God, I suppose, is able to anticipate this dumb move, but humans will do it anyway and then blame God for not stopping them. Some traditions place Satan in hell, as the devil, not in heavenly places. This changes the interpretation. It comes down to whether revelations is finished or whether it is still in the future, as to whether law is based on God or Satan, respectively.

    Christ did away with law by fulfilling law. This is why he is called the second Adam. As the second Adam, he gets to pick again and will choose the tree of life and God, without any middleman; sons of God. Satan is separated out.
     
  23. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     

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