Socialism in Motion: A Trainwreck

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Michael, May 21, 2014.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    French rail company orders 2,000 trains too wide for platforms

    What was it Joe said about State Fascism? Oh yeah, Government's more economical and efficient - that's why we need to give up what's left of our civil rights and privacy, you know, so we can get out of Government's way and let them 'do their job' and then finally, when we've given up all our personal liberties - society will be perfect.

    Hey, look at it this way, France's GDP will go up. Think of all those 'jobs' created having to fix this mess. I'm sure there's plenty of Keynesian who think this is just wonderful for Frances economy.

    Those of you interested in living in a State-run hell hole may be curious to read Capital in the Twenty-First Century Hardcover by Thomas Piketty (darling of the Progressive Left). His plan is to have a levy of a sic 'confiscation tax' for the "good of society". Yes, take all incentive away from making 'excessive profit'.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL actually, that isn't what I said. You are making stuff up again. What I have said on numerous times is that humans are faliable wither the work in private industry or government. There is nothing magical about private industry or government. People are people. You on the other hand have a lot of that magical thinking going on.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
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  5. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes Joe, People are People.
     
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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Oh I see. You mean like the billions of dollars that the US gov is spending on obsolete tanks that the miltary says they do not want. Congress is raming the tanks down the throats of the military so that the tax payers can pay for the factories to stay open and employ their constituents.
     
  8. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    What has the train problem to do with socialism?
    Presumably, the cars were bought from a private manufacturer, who did not know or care what platforms they were to fit.
    Two departments of any organization, public or private, can have imperfect communication; anyone can overlook a detail.
    All this says is, more people should have checked over the details for the whole project before committing major funds.
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    In micheal's mind if the government is involved and something goes wrong even if it's to the smallest degree it must be socialism or progressivism or anything other than pure free market extremists fault
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    France has one of the most modern rail systems in the world. I think they're doing OK. Meanwhile, I think it might be nice to go from New York to Chicago at 100mph. You know, like we used to be able to in this country in 1893.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The horrible outcome is that France has to spend about 100 million dollars modernizing its older platforms (the newer ones are fine). So they will get some infrastructure improvements a few years ahead of schedule. I've heard of worse disasters.

    Anybody have a number for how much the privately run capitalistic GM corporation is going to be shelling out for retrofitting millions of cars with reliable ignition modules? At the end of which people will have nothing better than what they've already paid for - no new platforms for private automobile customers.

    So looking back over the years, if I had a choice between having my life depend on the French rail system or having it depend on the products of American automobile industry free enterprise, the better option is pretty obvious.
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    And children go without time with their parents who, instead of having the luxury of spending time at home, have to get to work to pay for some bureaucrats idiocracy, people will go with medicine as budgets are cut, limited resources that could have been used to develop alternative energy are wasted 'modernizing' a train system that didn't need it, and people become poorer for it. See, out there in the real world, resources are limited.

    But hey, why live in the real world when a word-world is so much more fun.
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You mean the American auto industry that should have seen GM go bankrupt, but instead was bailed out by the State - at tax payer's expense? That "Free" enterprise? You meant to say American Fascism.

    When America HAD a free enterprise it was the envy of the world. People from all across the world migrated to America. A great example is Nikola Tesla. Well, I'd suggest to any Tesla's out there - don't bother moving to the USSA. You're wasting your time. The USSA is the one of the last places you'd want to bother starting a business. Try China or even Japan.
     
  14. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    You mean the same free enterprise that allowed eddison to steal tesla's idea's and make millions off of him. And than tried to discredit him because he wanted to give away electricity for free? I'm sorry but eddison's crookedness is more in line with your free market extremism than tesla. Tesla history is of the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Again you stare ryg to paint libertarianism has healthy when it's not via poor grasp of history
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well America Still has a free enterprise system. The GM bailout was the cheapest solution and the best solution for the American economy. And people migrated to the US because Uncle Sam was giving away free land.

    Part of your problem Michael is, you don't know what you are talking about.
     
  16. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Let me see if I have your argument correct, Tesla did compete in a much freer market, Tesla's idea of AC did beat out DC and Edison was not able to steal anything.

    Yup.... and you were crapping on about what exactly?

    I'll tell you what would have happened had Tesla and Edison fought their battle in 2014. Edison would have rang up some Political scum-bags on the Left and Right and Tesla's ideas would have been confiscated by the State, given over to a State monopoly, which Edison would have run, and Tesla would have been charged with Terrorism and probably languished in prison being raped until he was deported for visa violations.


    Yes, keep voting for the group of sociopaths who out-right made up "WMD" and invaded Iraq killing unknown numbers of innocent women and children while using depleted uranium to irradiate entire cities with radioactive dust that will NEVER leave earth in our species lifetime. Yes, keep voting for the violent psychopaths - they'll look after you. What you definitely do NOT want to do is deregulate the markets and allow people like Tesla to flourish, because if that happened you'd have a bunch of wonderful new products to make your life better and *GAAAAAAAASP* the Tesla's of the world would become wealthy - Oh good gods! The HORROR!!! THE HORROR!!! Then they'd probably put that capital in a Bank that would lend it out OR reinvest in their companies to make more jobs and better stuff. Yes... thank the GODS we knock those f*cking Tesla's right-back down to size and live life as Tax-Cattle on the Federal Reserve's Bitch Farm where the Edison's of the World/GE run our lives for them.
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    (A) Tesla did not immigrate to the US to run a farm (B) bailing out GM was a waste of tax-payer money (C) the USSA has hyper-regulated markets, which are anything but 'free' enterprise (D) Uncle Sam is a euphemism for a violent group of people (most of whom are unelected) with the legal obligation to initiate force against innocent people.
     
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    RE:Socialism in Motion: A Trainwreck

    Financial Times
    May 26, 2014
    Want to know what else Socialism brings about - Nationalism, Racism, Hatred. This is what so-called Progressive Socialism gives birth to, once it fails (though it may take some time, it always fails) then the Scapegoating starts.

    Socialism is birthed in intolerance. That's what it IS. It doesn't say 'let's try to work with one another to come to a solution'. Socialism says: f*ck voluntarism, I'm going to use the State to rape you.
    This is how Progressive Socialists get elected - promising to rape for you.
    By selling you on the idea Apple is the one screwing you over, you know, by offering you smart-phones at a cheap price and not paying the State enough tax. Yes, Apple is the the one to blame - if only they paid more tax (which means you pay more for your phone) then it'd all be wonderful. Don't blame the Progressive Socialistic State that just squandered $200 million on a railway system that was in no need of repair (well, until some incompetent overly paid bureaucrat in a hurry to make a coffee date bought a tens of millions of dollars worth of the wrong damn trains!). Sure, parents can't see their children because they're at work half the year paying for a bureaucracy full of incompetent unelected idiots. BUT let's blame Apple. And hey, did I mention my mate owns stock in the company that sells the trains - at double the cost for half the quality. Or my mate who get's the service contract on trains that break-down every few months?

    The hate nurtured so long by Far-Left Socialism is just as easily redirected by the Far-Right Nationalism.


    Yup, keep pulling the magic lever Left or Right. That's your role. Then waddle your fat-arse back into your Tax-Pen and make your farmers milk and meat.

    Here's a fact, there were no WMD in Iraq. It was a lie. We wasted $5 trillion plus dollars on a lie. Yet, the State is still killing innocent people and dumb-arse Americans are still waving their idiotic flags moo moo mooing. Here's a fact, we didn't 'need' the bail out the richest 0.1% to the tune of unknowable trillions. We 'could' have let the banks file for bankruptcy. The sky would not have fallen. We fought a f*cking Revolutionary War, a Civil War, the WWII for Christ's sake - stop being such spineless cowards. The world didn't end and it wouldn't have ended. You don't HAVE to be a tax-slave.

    But that's what you want to be.
    You love being 'regulated'.
    You're a coward.
    It's that simple - coward.
    You'd personally never have the balls to go man-up and steal from your neighbor who owns the shop up the street selling you stuff. Oh ho ho, but in the secrecy of the magic 'voting booth', then you can indulge yourself and vote to 'Tax' (steal) as much as you can get from the shop owner. You know "for the Good of Society". Keep telling yourself that bullsh*t. You vote for the demagogue who promises you something from someone for nothing. Be it ObamaCare, SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools... whatever it is. Ah, but guess what - we're poorer than we've been in half a century, and those rights you gave up to make stealing legal - those aren't coming back. Think of it as Ying and Yang.


    Progressive Socialism eventually crawls up its own oxymoronic arse and dies - only to be reborn as Fascist Nationalism. So, feel good France. You elected Holland and you got a warm steaming pile of Marine le Pen on your face. Good for you!


    It makes you feel safe knowing there's a bureaucrat somewhere that stops by your favored franchise restaurant once a year to inspect the pink-slime and ensure the hot ammonia tanks are up to level (after calling ahead). Yes, there's no way on The Gods green Earth a fat American could be allowed to open an "unlicensed" *GAAAASP CHOKE PANT* restaurant and serve food for a few dollars. No God Damn Way! Not in the Gawd Damn LAND OF THE FREE and Home of the BRAVE. No no no.... Now, serve a 6 month infant - oh, sure, no problems there. But not another adult - god no, not unless it was for free, then it's magically fine all of a sudden.


    Yup meanwhile us moo moo Amooerikkans.... will make the time to go to war again and again and again.
    Time to go die as cannon fodder killing women and children in the ME like brave proud Land-of-the-Free Tax Cattle that you know you are.


    Expect to become poorer. That's what the future holds for America. Much poorer.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say he did, and Tesla was no "all migrants" either. where is your proof bailing out GM was a waste of money? It kept thousands of people employed, paying taxes, and off the government safety net.

    And has been pointed out to you, regulation doesn't mean markets are not free or competitive.
     
  20. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    As usual you miss the point to spread propaganda. Ok several things about our post are off. Firstly this is the second time you've tried to used tesla to promote your extremist anti freedom ideas by using tesla a man screwed over repeatedly by the market manipulation a that happen in a "free market" like not getting paid what you were promised. Secondly tesla was a collectivist. He hated politics but what little he did say on politics and economics are very much opposed to your ideals. He believed his duty was to create a better world for mankind. Again he wanted to give free power to everyone. Or what you'd call " fascism" what normal people would a nice man. Thirdly as you keep calling everyone you don't like a sociopath with zero evidence is kind of annoying. Also you belong to the political ideology that most closely parallels sociopathy's ethical make up. They done studies libertarians tend toward an ethical make up that had similarities to those of sociopaths and those with autism. So before calling anyone a sociopath look in the mirror you'll be closer to finding one.
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, we all know sociopaths and those with pyschopathy are first in line to defend the non-aggression axiom :bugeye:

    Let's see, Libertarians like Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mugabe, Kim Jong-Il, Pol Pot and lest we forget the German National SOCIALIST Party. Oh, wait, these were all a bunch of murdering psychopaths who got to power with promises of Progressive SOCIALISM. Whatever crackpot 'study' you wasted your time reading, it's was flawed.

    For Libertarian ideology you may want to try John Locke, Lao-Tzu, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith, Murray Rothbard - even in the Jesus Horus Christ mythos, the Authors have the God-man protagonist Iēsous clearly state the NAP when he reiterates the Golden Rule in the Bible: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Here's a little secret, two men in a room cannot simultaneously rape one another. It's simply, by definition, impossible. Using the State to rape your way to a peaceful and prosperous free society - is equally oxymoronic. It's impossible.

    Which we will see across our lifetimes.
    Because if there's one thing you needn't worry about, that's a case of Americans suddenly developing an appetite for non-violence.
    Oh, no. Not by a loooong shot. Exactly the opposite in fact.


    As an aside, I know full well Tesla's ideas regarding socialism. If he had been properly informed, he'd have retained his patent rights and renegotiated with Westinghouse and would have been able to accumulate the capital to make some of these ideas a reality. Instead he was taken to the cleaners because of his mistaken notion Earth has limitless energy - which it doesn't. And his mistaken ideas about human being rational and their love of freedom and peace, humans loath peace, hate freedom and can't wait to kill one another.
    Had he sat down and spoken to just one of the Libertarians of his time, he'd have been able to put in motion all sorts of economically feasible, and better uses, of our limited energy resources by properly accumulating and investing capital.

    Sadly, there's was an idiotic notion of the day, the centralization of force, works for the betterment of society.
    This little experiment cost some 100s of millions of humans their lives.
    That's a shame.
     
  22. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no but they are the first to try and get limits of action reduced.

    none of those made any progressive socialist promises. nor or they sociopaths.
    that funny one of your libertarian bibles reason magazine thought it was wonderful accurate i never said libertarians were sociopaths just that there moral make up was most closely resembling that of sociopaths.

    http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/20/the-science-of-libertarian-mor
    http://www.sociopathworld.com/2011/12/morality-of-libertarians.html

    [/QUOTE]For Libertarian ideology you may want to try John Locke, Lao-Tzu, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith, Murray Rothbard - even in the Jesus Horus Christ mythos, the Authors have the God-man protagonist Iēsous clearly state the NAP when he reiterates the Golden Rule in the Bible: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".[/QUOTE] lets see locke belivied strongly in social contract which libertarians oppose greatly. lao tzu was a taoist while there is over lap he was not a libertarian while libertarians have been influenced by him they reject the important parts of taoism. thomas paine was a supporter of public education. Jefferson was one of the first people to in the US to support a progressive income tax. the next to or actually modern enough to actualy asscioate with modern libertarianism and as to christ you'd be better off mentioning the orginal version from the hebrew bible do not do unto others and you have them not due unto you. the christian version is implicent toward posative rights the orginal jewish is morte in line with libertarian belief only in negative rights.
    thats a nice little sound bite and meaningless. two men can harm each other at the same time. and what is your fetish with rape? force used to prevent greater harm is the basis of a free and prosperoous scociety. its why the new deal greated the greatest proparity.

    humans like chimps are biologicaly temerpered toward violence libertarians are just as violent as the rest of humanity they just prefer other methods of harm than strict pyshical attacks


    as the following paragraph show know you don't.
    again ignoring the fact tesla didn't care about money. money was just a means for him to to work to find a better way for mankind. also i like you state tesla love of reason the one thing he actually had in common with libertarians(not that they actually use it) as why he isn't ::rollseyes:: you need to quit using people who would loathe libertarianism to push your extremist anti freedom ideology. you need to actually read and go back to school and actually understand the topics you try and lecture about.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Which is just as true of the capitalist disasters like GM's ignition module, which will be far more expensive and impoverishing than France's train platforms;

    and also, btw, involved people who have had to work much longer hours and spend much less time with their children and get significantly lower quality medical care than the average taxpayer in France, and a company that has been far more of an obstacle to "alternative energy" development than the managers of France's railway system, and so forth.

    You are picking government nits, and swallowing corporate camels - and your "facts" are wrong, and you don't know what socialism is.
     

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