The Plan

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by kmguru, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. kmguru Staff Member

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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Just keep putting these into the atmosphere and that way more heating will happen.

    There are six air pollutants that are commonly found throughout the United States. The six pollutants are ozone, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, particulate matter, sulfur dioxide and lead
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    And when the ice age starts...what then?
     
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  7. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    No doubt all you SciForum moderators got all the answers. I rest easy every night and half the day knowing you wise ones are keeping the world safe through proper science forum moderation.

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  8. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Shoot yourself in the head, when you are reincarnated, shoot yourself in the head, repeat until the environment is to your liking. Problem solved. Your welcome....
     
  9. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    Awesome.. Now, that's a real "plan"...:yay:
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    If you shoot yourself, your spirit will dissolve into the universe....sad but true...think about those muslim jihadis...no 72 hotties...

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  11. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    As I recall from church if you have a good reason to shoot yourself you will still be reincarnated.

    But if I am remembering this incorrectly then you could always just drive down to a Mexican border town a loudly proclaim that drug dealers are the scum of the earth and start asking people in the street who are the members of the drug cartels so you can report them to the Federales.

    Again problem solved. Just call me the answer man.
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    Good reason means...if the enemy is after you and you have to kill yourself to save the country etc...

    perhaps...Mexican item looks good. By the time we need it there will be 20 Billion people that needs to go there? And then what?

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  13. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I notice that the links in the OP describe and forcast a population problem in Earth's future. Your 30,000 year ice age scenario, coupled with 7 to 11 billion inhabitants is certainly motivation enough to look for ways to escape Earth. Is the thread about ways to escape the problem by leaving Earth, or is the thread about to consequences of over population and declining resourses to support the over population?

    If there was a way off the planet, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would be able to take advantge of it. On the other hand, billions and billions would be culled out by the natural consequences of the ice age and food shortages.

    It probably sounds crude, but there is a countdown clock running until life on Earth faces such disasterous conditions. If human kind learns to relocate, that only resets the countdown clock to be measuring the time left when entropy increases to the point that makes all life in the known universe impossible.

    Ultimately the best hope to the continued existence of intelligent, free willed life forms somewhere in the greater universe is that the universe somehow defeats entropy on a grand scale.

    I am optimistic for the prospects of a universe that does so, and that eternally hosts intelligent life, but such a universe will go through a potentially infinite number of catastropic anhilations of life, over and over, in all places that might currently host life, while it readies the hospitable environments for the future generation and evolution of intelligent life in the distant reaches, perhaps beyond what we now consider the finite expanding universe. It would be like a rolling brown out on a universal scale, some places complete entropy, and other places emerging as entropy is refreshed elsewhere.

    It is a real long shot to think that any currently existing life form will be able to work its way through the greater and greater calamities that are predicted to occur on greater and greater scales as entropy increases in great swaths. The best scenario might just be that the greater universe will renew itself in a way that life will always exist somewhere.
     
  14. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    If we learned selflessness and paradoxically self-control, we'd be just fine forever.
     
  15. kmguru Staff Member

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    ways to escape the problem by leaving Earth

    Thank you Quantum Wave. I did not think there are any members that can talk intelligently until you came along. Again Thank You....

    The Universe does not have a easy way to take Billions of people out. There is a way but the technology is very difficult...like Star Gate...

    So, our chance is to take a certain amount of decent and organized humans and move to another planet. Then we can re-populate that place using the people who pass away from Earth. Spirit is eternal and hence not an issue. Reincarnation is the best way. Universe is nice in that system.

    The catch is to develop technology there quick enough to cover all activities we missed...but can be done.

    Already people are working on next generation devices now such that in 150 years, we should be ready to go.

    In the mean time...if there are some people that are left over on Earth...in equatorial area, then they will be caveman stage and it will take another 100,000 years to go forward too until they can do the same for the next generation.

    I bet you this happened before on this planet....just a guess like Rama Civilization...but who knows if any physical evidence is there in Antarctica or Moon base...just a guess...and at that time, some people were here too

    Even if we can do Star Gate....Can we take all the people out and again start the war in the new planet? That is where I have a problem. IF not...taking what kind of people to the new place?

    Bottom line is, we can develop a movement for small or large system....and use reincarnation when needed....Universe does that a lot.

    There is also a catch: Our past civilizations that left 100,000 years ago will not help us to go to their place. But may help us to move to another place...it depends on how we are behaving...so all these issues need to be adjusted.

    And yes, we are moving...like it or not...and our human life have various other spirits here too...(that is what I was told - you know those UFOs) so they could help us too...but we have to be ready then....

    This time, it may be difficult for humans to be left alone during long term ice age...and when I come back (reincarnated), my job would be to support the space ships program or star gate (I will find out in 20 years). I heard that I have friends who were system designer in the last space ships with organic computers....

    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  16. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Really? There are a few who have said just the opposite. Anything that sounds intelligent may just be cut and paste, lol.
    You have interesting view points on how humans might escape the great cataclysms. My view on the possible future technologies that would be required actually coming to reality is perhaps less optimistic; or I might say your views might be very optimistic

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    .

    In my last post I felt I was being crudely optimistic by holding out the possibility that the universe might always host life, but that life forms would have finite durations before they succumb to nature's entropy defeating mechanisms. An eternal universe that perpetually hosts life by defeating entropy might do so rather crudely, as it plays out. The mechanisms could amount to big crunches and big bangs here and there across the landscape of a potentially infinite and eternal universe, and you don't want to be any where near that kind of cosmic action.

    In the sort run, the calamities are more confined, but still on the verge of being inescapable, like the eventual expansion of the sun to engulf that near planets, or the rouge asteroids that could take out whole planets.

    Some of the talk about harnessing things like faster than light travel, teleportation, and going back in time seem to be based on certain interpretations of quantum mechanics that could accommodate such things. In my view, the group of QM interpretations that I feel are likely to best accommodate the universe as we see it are in a class called "hidden variables". Though "hidden variables" sounds like it opens up new possibilities, to me it also restricts some possibilities that require non-locality like instantaneous communication and action between particles, and like teleportation and time travel.

    As for the human spirit, there is a pleasant ring to that concept, and my view of hidden variables interpretations is that they can accommodate such a thing, but only to the extent that it would be based on invariant natural laws that we don't yet understand.

    But it is good to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Uh... where, exactly, are we going?

    Assuming that science fiction is indeed science fiction, so there's no such thing as "warp drive," "wormholes," "antigravity," "suspended animation," etc., our spacecraft will have to maintain a steady acceleration of 1G for our bodies to stay healthy. Once we're halfway to our destination, we reverse the engine and decelerate at 1G for the second half of the journey.

    We already know that there are no habitable planets within the distance we could traverse at those speeds in the maximum 60-year life expectancy of most of the crew. (Roughly 40 light-years IIRC; I'm not going to re-do the math right now.

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    )

    But more importantly, why are we worried about an ice age, when all the scientists tell us that the Anthropocene Era (the era in which Homo sapiens is the dominant force in the development of the ecosystem, climate, etc.) will be marked by the end of the ice age cycle, starting right now? Average temperature will still fluctuate slightly, but remain higher than they were over the past couple of billion years. There will be no permanent ice trapped in glaciers and the polar caps. Sea level will exceed its historic highs. Almost every major city on earth was built on the shore of an ocean, lake or river, so every one of them will have to be abandoned, or else moved about 25 miles to higher ground (along with more than half the population)--within a couple of centuries.

    The only way an ice age could recur would be a gigantic asteroid hit that fills the atmosphere with light-blocking dust for several decades. These things happen, but they're unpredictable and the next one could be 10,000 years in the future, after we have invented asteroid-deflecting technology.

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    Or a nuclear war, of course. Despite my well-known negative attitude about Christianity, it seems that the Christian nations have truly dedicated themselves to not starting an atomic war. Now if we could just count on the same level of maturity in the Muslim and Jewish nations....

    Anyway, back on topic. If an ice age comes, life on earth will survive as it always has during previous ice ages. The decreased rainfall and loss of arable land will, of course, reduce the number of people who can live on this planet, but there will still be plenty of us, probably at least one billion. After all, there are people living on this planet right now who spend their entire lives on permafrost: the Eskimo/Aleut, their cousins in northern Siberia, and the Sami (or "Lapps" as we used to call them).

    There will still be a temperate zone with four seasons, merely a narrower one. Life will go on.

    The ice age won't descend like a curtain, killing billions of people overnight. It will happen gradually. Since the birth rate will already have fallen below replacement level by the end of this century (as in virtually every respectable demographic prediction, now that we know that the best contraceptive is prosperity) and the population will already be shrinking slowly, people may very well continue to be responsible and reduce the birth rate even further, so their children won't be fighting for food.
     
  18. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    But, we haven't... Human nature, as it were...
     
  19. kmguru Staff Member

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    Thank you...


    Just to SEE who is thinking what...not an issue. I do not want to be the "Bruno" of the new COSMOS....anyone else want to say something ...go for it after the fact not before....
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    No, like all humans you are an ape. A species of Great Ape, to be specific, a taxonomic family which includes humans, the orangutan, the two species of gorilla and the two species of chimpanzee. The taxonomic family of Lesser Apes includes 15-20 species of gibbons.

    There are about 200 species of monkeys, as well as about 100 species of lemurs and about a dozen species of tarsiers. With the apes, this makes up the clade of primates.
     
  21. kmguru Staff Member

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    I had a lucid dream that Earth will be basically uninhabitable in 300 years for 30,000 years.Therefore idea is to develop a movement to get out. Hence my post...nothing special...

    I do have access to technology for organic computers, quantum communications, wormhole systems, electromagnetic propulsion that can be done in 100 years...hence my post....to see who can join in to say what...

    I am not worried about the Technology....It is people and what we are going to do....
     
  22. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Well, at least you are right about ONE point - a lucid dream is nothing special. At all.
     
  23. kmguru Staff Member

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    ...and you are as smart as they come...very interesting...
     

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