Regarding Religion as a Whole (and John Lennon, can't forget him)

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I mean, the man makes a good point. Get rid of the preconceptions of religion, nationality, and race... and by get rid of, I mean utterly purge from the head of all humanity the notions therein... and the world would stand a MUCH better chance of actually getting along.

About the only thing missing from that song is politics... get rid of them as well, and I think we're set!

 

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The problem is that everyone already has their own beliefs and to try and make them or just ask them to give up their beliefs would not happen. Perhaps a few humans would do so and have done so but the majority of humans want what they already believe in to continue. Lennon had a good idea I'll admit but that idea won't work now or even in the future.

 

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Very nice, Kittamaru. One of the best songs in the world.

 

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I love that view! People already have so much to try to deal with or accomplish just during overall existing in a harsh universe, without engaging in interperson and interpeople conflicts of various sorts.

In a particularly relevant vein these days, I'd like to see Russia and the USA merge and become a single country. That's a big start on moving everyone forward in a world union that I'd like to see happen, and after that, Crimea and Ukraine could seem pretty minor things to covet.

 

I think that his vision is naive and unattainable.

The cost of achieving complete social homogeneity would seem to be the imposition of some form of totalitarianism.

People instinctively want to belong to things - families, tribes, nations, political parties, religions, street-gangs, whatever it happens to be. It's how people define themselves as people.

Lennon's suggestion seems to be that if everything that people feel attachment to that's less inclusive than humanity itself were eliminated, then everyone will finally discover world peace.

The thing is, if all the things that traditionally divide people into smaller social groups were eliminated (never mind how), then people would simply invent new ways of distinguishing themselves and create new social identities in very short order. That's how people are and it's how they behave.

 

Thing is, it is in fact the exact opposite of totalitarianism... if anything, it's the idea of simply letting people believe what they will and not judging them for it.

And you bring up the crux of the issue in your last sentence - it is a fundamental flaw with (most) people today. Granted, there are those among us capable of looking beyond such petty things as social class, race, religion, creed, et al... that is what I believe is the next stage in human evolution - not so much a physical change as it is a paradigm shift in thinking.

 

Conceivable. Yet - what if the same regions of the brain have, say, knock-on effects on things like imagination, laterality, adaptability?

I've witnessed the impressive horrors of religion at my distance, and yet I'm not ready to throw it away. Like untempered steel it needs hammering, beating, fixing. I think we can reform religion - all religion - to serve the cause of Man without offending the gods.

 

Maybe, but it is gonna take a whole lot of edumacation, and we would rather build huge phallic symbols to honor our beliefs or what we deem as deserving individuals.

 

Sheesh! Why don't you just come out as an atheist?

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Still waiting for a reply, BTW.

jan.

 

Which, again, is a failing of mankind, not religion. It is our own hubris and our delusions of grandeur that cause us to, ultimately, trip and fail.

To quote the lyrics of one of my favorite groups - Love and Theft:

 

Or anarchy... a period of unregulated human activity (the homogeneity of patternless "static or noise"), before the collapse of civilization and the demands of survival gave birth to that new round of conceptions and schemes for social organization and individual / group distinctions below.

 

Who's Anna? And I don't think MLK wanted to give up his religion either.

 

Not so. We have recent examples of democracy fever sweeping thru countries like Iran, Egypt, and the Ukraine. People like the idea of democracy and the tolerance it tends to promote. Look at western democracies. Centuries of free speech, freedom to think and believe what you want, the right to vote, the right to assembly, freedom of press, etc. This is NOT homogeneity imposed by a fascist state from the top down. It is the broad secular vision of a people bound by a common humanity and planetary citizenship while respecting diversity of lifestyles, cultures, and ethnicities. It is real and it works.

People can acquire healthy social identities in democracies without being beaten over the head with them as children in the form of religion. Political parties, football teams, lifestyle choices, careers, online group forums like this one, community groups, etc. Identities based on realworld things instead of on the passed down delusions and superstitions of their pre iron age ancestors.

 

“He who despairs of the human condition is a coward, but he who has hope for it is a fool.” -Albert Camus

It's nice to imagine such optimistic scenarios every once in while...the key word being "imagine". I could bet my life on saying that the world projected in that comic could never become a reality. Could we come close? maybe..but the vision of John Lennon is just that, a vision..unless we used transhumanism methodologies or technology to transcend beyond our present biological forms. So... global human super organism anyone.... Assimilate?

 

It's coming - slowly. We're in serious danger of a relapse, mind, but we can beat it, if we only have the will.

 

The West European democracies are going in that direction: secular, resisting religion, protecting minorities and free speech, stopping racism, homophobia and the abuse of women, largely peaceful in outlook, respecting human and civil rights. Now if only the rest of the world would follow suit...

 

I've enjoued Jimmy Buffets take on life...

[video=youtube;iE0Td3L68lU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE0Td3L68lU[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE0Td3L68lU

 

It amuses me just how small minded you actually are Jan... it isn't just about religion, though that is a central theme of this idea - it's about putting aside ALL differences to work together as a whole.

And what question?

 

How is what John Lennon dreams of any different from what Jesus said? He wasn't interested in countries, religions or possessions. He said the kingdom of God (heaven, if you will, is within you). Thus he saw countries. He said to show your love for God (Who you can't see) by loving your neighbor (whom you can). Thus He saw religion. He said not to worry about clothes or food, but to think about the things of God (those first two items) Thus He saw possessions.

It sounds a bit silly to cite Homer Simpson as a theologian, but when one considers John Lennon was just a singer in a rock and roll band, and the OP is a cheesy cartoon, I guess Homer Simpson will do. Once in a rare mood Homer defended his Christian neighbor Ned Flanders's behavior, "If we were all Ned Fladerseses, we wouldn't need to get to heaven; heaven would already be here.

 

John Lennon didn't preach the coming of the kingdom of God ruled over by himself while damning those who rejected him to suffer in eternal hellfire. That's what makes John Lennon's dream different from Jesus Christ's apocalyptic nightmare.

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