Religion Equation

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by wesmorris, Dec 10, 2002.

  1. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, so this is a little hard to follow, but I swear it makes sense:

    Religion = (Best explanation as to the pardox of consciousness) as a function of time + Socio-Cultural Lag (the fact that we inherit social fundamentals from preceding generations) with a heavy dose of (there is always a distribution of intellect levels (throughout the population of humanity at a given time) and those intellect levels are the ones whom derive the conclusion about what is the "best explanation" as referenced above, whereby it is thereby beneficial to manifest said conclusions in such a manner that has the most positive impact on the individual possessing the beforementioned intellect)

    That is just applying logic and economic principle to a distribution of consciousnesses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2002
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  3. Nebula Occasionally Frequent Registered Senior Member

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    I guess I'll just have to believe you then.
     
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  5. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    something like this:

    The other cavemen look to the caveman who comes up with a seemingly reasonable conclusion as to their fundamental quandry. They need this conclusion given that the understanding of the world around them is exceedingly lacking. This leads to a condition that has no context. That is a problem because the human brain is a context providing organ/machine/device/thing. So the smart guy "reckons" he's got it figured out and goes and tells everybody his theory. Most of the cavemen like it.


    Now you've established religion. Maybe this particular caveman is particularly cunning and starts making up "gods" or "spirits" that control things like gravity, fire, emotions.. etc. He realizes at some point that his ability to provide this context has many positive effects throughout his community. The people pay him homage by donating food or fire or skins or whatever kinds of things cavemen are into. It is now common sense that if you have 100 communities similar to this as LEAST one of them will succumb to the temptation of abusing his power. Regardless I'm rambling aboot that there.

    Basically, that trickles down and evolves over hundreds of generations. The natural evolution of the concept of "gods" or "spirits" or whatever is inherently the "one god" concept.

    Here is the problem though: "gods" and "spirits" were "invented" or "surmised" to provide answers to questions like "What's that huge shiny ball hanging in the sky? Where does is go every night?", and "Hey, what's that green stuff all over the ground and why does it turn brown sometimes?" This is really just an attempt to provide context for all the hungry brains. Thus, religion was/(still is to some) the best explanation at any given time. (I was gonna try to drive home the point that well, now there is scientific data and related knowledge to provide a much more sophisticated and objective perspective on the universe... but that's a whole other argument I spoze)

    Now, after the first peoples figured out whatever it was that they figured out they passed it along to everyone who was in the market for some context. Sometimes they believed in their context so violently er.. hehe.. well, you know what I'm getting at. A whole lot of death and ugliness based on context. Regardless, one of the consequences of buying into a context is that you pass it on to your children for the most part. So here we have that Socio-Cultural Lag dealy that I mentioned.

    blah. that's all the clarification I can provide at the moment. I've got to answer corrective actions now. Geh.

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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2002
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  7. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

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    What you describe sounds a lot like memes.
     
  8. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Memes? Never heard of it. I'll check into it and get back with you.
     
  9. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Okay then well yeah, pretty much. Hehe, I hate it when I find out there's this whole thing that explains my bullshit a lot better than I can explain it myself. Hehe, though I would say that reality is a little "softer" so to speak than what I just read about the meme thing... the fundy's are pretty much the same yeah. Though I don't neccessarily see it as a disease or virus (but hehe, yikes, that sure seems pretty appropriate the more I think about it). Well, for one the meme thing is prolly a good description of current affairs given my secondary argument that religion is outdated. But the meme thing isn't really a good description of evertying up until recently because of this: It's not a meme in my opinion if it's an earnest attempt to describe the nature of the universe and there is no greater context with which to counter. However since the age of guyz who said the earth is round and stuff, the meme argument or attitude of "virus" is more and more of a correct doodad. hmm.. there is SO much to discuss with all that. could write ALL DAY. I mean, the application of the meme context coupled with my angle above is a dynamic and subjective deal. for instance is there a broader context to a man/culture or whatever who always has been isolated? What are the myriad of iterations of exposure to the broader context? What role does the human will (choice) play in that exposure? Kind of overwhelming.
     
  10. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

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    Kind of overwhelming

    Overwhelming perhaps but an interesting theory nonetheless.
    Here is a link that I thought you might find interesting.

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    Viruses of the Mind
     
  11. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    The Christianity Meme

    You might want to check out this website:

    http://www.christianitymeme.org
     
  12. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Kind of overwhelming

    There is also a book I'd like to recommend by Richard Brodie called "Virus of the Mind," which I feel does a great job of expaining memes in an easy-to-understand, non-technical way.
     
  13. spookz Banned Banned

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    the christian meme

    Like a virus or parasitic worm, a successful meme must perform two actions:
    - Ensure it takes up long-term residence in its host.
    - Bring about the conditions for its spread.
    To establish itself in the mind of its host it will use some or all of the following mechanisms:

    [1] Promise heaven for belief.
    [2] Threaten eternal punishment in hell for disbelief.
    [3] Boost the believers' egos by telling them they are 'chosen' or superior to believers in false memes.
    [4] Disable the faculties of disbelief ('immune response') by claiming that faith is superior to reason.
    [5] Establish itself as the One True Meme, usually by some sort of holy book containing a circular self-referential argument such as:

    X is the one true meme. We know X is the one true meme because The Source of Universal Truth has approved X. We know The Source of Universal Truth has approved X, because X contains statements which say so. We know what X says is true because X is the one true meme.

    Once it has parasitised the mind of its host, a meme needs to propagate itself. A successful meme will contain instructions for some or all of the following:

    [6] Holy war - convert or kill all unbelievers.
    [7] Intimidation and terrorism - threaten and discriminate against unbelievers.
    [8] Enforced social isolation or even death to apostates. (An apostate is a host which has cured itself of a meme-infection. It is especially dangerous to the meme because it might pass on meme-resistance to others).
    [9] Fecundism - encourage true believers to breed faster than believers in false memes.
    [10] Censorship - prevent rival memes from reaching potential hosts (a theological doctrine known as 'Error has no rights').
    [11] Disinformation - spread lies about rival memes. Demonise them - the bigger the lies the more likely they are to be believed. The disinformation may even include instructions for a meme to lie about itself! (see below)

    Al-taqiyya and dissimulation are words used for a practice of Muslims blatantly lying to non-Muslims. All but some of the most fundamental Muslims consider the act of Al-taqiyya or lying to non-Muslims to be a good work. This is very important when one remembers that, in Islam, salvation is determined by good works. This means that a Muslim lying to a non-Muslim is that Muslim doing a good work to earn salvation. It is almost equivalent to a Christian accepting Jesus as his savior. One of the big differences is that a Christian only needs to accept Jesus as his savior once to become saved forever but a Muslim must do his good works consistently and repeatedly to earn his salvation with the except of the greatest work of dying while fighting non-Muslims.

    http://hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran5.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2003

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