Archaeology of Pre-Inca Civilizations

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Walter L. Wagner, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    Evidences of pre-Inca civilizations with higher technologies are in great abundance in Peru and Bolivia.


    What kind of wire could have made this cut? Bronze wires twined together? What was the cutting agent?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QizCez2gOdw see in particular starting at 2:20




    Were these machine-cut? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqAB2He7LA

    Was this machine-drilled? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uExYzh89MQI

    More strange stonework. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znc5gnWGMjA see in particular 1:30:30

    More interesting stone-cutting leaving very smooth surfaces. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ23nz5z4g0



    Certainly the metallurgy was advanced to pour key-locks on the stonework. Was it also sufficiently advanced to form wires? To form saw-blades? To form drill-bits? Could these have been mechanically driven through human power?

    Who were the builders, and when did they live? This is apparently a chapter of unknown history. I wonder if they have left evidences that are now hundreds of feet below the ocean surface. Could the gradual rise of the ocean, and the wave action as the areas were buried by the rising ocean, left anything that could today be recognized?
     
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  3. arauca Banned Banned

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    If this is true we are just arshe holes, padding ourselves
     
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  5. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I do not see any evidence of 'higher technology'. I see evidence of a prebronze age civilization that was very intelligent and resourceful. We look at what was done with stoneage materials and say that would be too freaking hard - so they must have had machines and metallurgy. That is taking away from the incredible feats that they accomplished IMO. You can drill a very nice hole in granite with sticks, leather and sand, it just takes a long time and a lot of manpower.
     
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  7. arauca Banned Banned

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  8. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    you didn't look at the pictures.

    how do you make a thin slice through granite about 1 foot deep, with the slice being about 1/8" wide, and about 5 feet long? We do this today with a slicing wheel or band-saw. How did they do that then? Not thin sticks and sand. More likely thin-twined bronze wire, and some form of abrasive material harder than, or at least as hard as, granite.

    how do you make a long (2 feet long or longer) symetical hole in granite, showing parallel marks along the entire length from the tool?

    how do you make deep holes in which, at the bottom, there is a circular ring of removed material along the perimeter of the hole, but only with a 'width' of about 1/8th inch, leaving a 'stub' of granite protruding an inch or so. this is very reminiscent of a circular boring saw that is rotated rapidly, cutting around a core material that is left behind, but that can be broken off periodically, allowing advancement of the cutting tool.

    if you have the technology to smelt bronze, and make chisels; and pour metal in place to lock stones together with clamps, would you not also have the ability to make wire? would you have the ability to fashion metal saws, that could be augmented with rapid agitation and/or rotation to speed up the cutting?

    to me that is 'high technology' that does not require modern-day technology. it is certainly higher technology than was available to the Incas when the spanish arrived, who were making cruder stoneworks affixed to underlying more sophisticated stone-work that is the subject of the videos.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Have you got something with a little more credibility than YouTube? At least something that isn't blocked by a corporate server?

    We've found the villages of the Solutreans offshore in the Atlantic, and their technology was pure Paleolithic. It should be a piece of cake to find this stuff if we know where to look.
     
  10. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    sorry, you'll have to wait until you get to a computer that isn't blocking youtube. i do this at work (between projects), and we are 'discouraged' from youtube, but not blocked.

    the videos show very good pictures. i haven't seen any authoritative articles as of yet. the videos are recent (last couple of years), and this is essentially news to me. i'd love to see articles that incorporate the photographs, instead of running dialogue and allusions to e.t., etc.

    it might be possible to find stuff in the ocean if it was built on coastal plains, as was the stuff in the north sea built on plains that then got submerged. the wave action would not have been as strong as if breaking on sharp slopes.
     
  11. arauca Banned Banned

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    As you are mentioning wire , I am sure granite have Rockwell hardness then bronze, so I doubt wire will last, What is wrong to think they might have a wheel disk or a grinding stone , think of the old knife sharpener stones .
     
  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I did.

    After an hour or 2 you cannot figure out how they worked the rock so you assume they had advanced mechanical and metallurgical technology? There is absolutely no evidence that anyone ever made any metal alloys in the precolumbian americas and certainly no evidence of advanced machinery. You need a whole lot more than some cut stones that you can't figure out how cutting was done.
     
  13. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    actually, i believe it is well documented that they had alloying to make bronze.

    so no, I could not figure out how to make a 1 foot deep, 1/8th inch thick, 5 feet long, slice out of rock unless you use an abrasive wire or saw-blade. do you know how to do it with a chisel? not likely. ergo, it was some type of tool of which archaeology has no direct record, and which can only be inferred.

    same with the holes that go several feet through rock, very round and uniform.

    if you can cast hard bronze, why would you not figure out to cast saw-blades, etc?

    Fraggle: here are some links to print articles with good pictures. i don't subscribe to everything written on them, but it is informative:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku
    http://www.davidpratt.info/andes2.htm
    http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/6766/puma-punku/
    http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum1/index.php?topic=3868.0 (includes underwater shot of Yonaguni in Japan, similar appearance to Inca terrace carvings)
     
  14. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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  15. arauca Banned Banned

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    The cutting devises or method was not made of wire , but of rope . The rope was covered with a natural glue , which was mixed with silica or quartz powder, the String was impeded into the glue with sand powder , the the ripe was stretched and left to dry , and latter is used to cut stone . Thesame rope was also used for drilling but the rope was wound on a stick and was rotate with leather string.
     
  16. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    i doubt that that would work. the 'string' would have to be 1/8th inch in diameter. i suspect it would break quite easily, rubbing against the granite. a bronze wire, consisting of several threaded strands, would work much better. likewise, a bronze saw, using grains of hard rock as the cutting agent, would work better. since they were working bronze in those days, it would have been easy for them to cast a bronze saw; whether they could make thin wire and twine it together is debatable. what evidence do you have for your suggested method?
     
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I am apparently way behind the times! I looked at your sites as well as others and it certainly does appear that there was smelting of the metals into alloys - very cool. I do not see any evidence of anything beyond bronze and certainly no evidence of any mechnaical devices, except those run by human power.
     
  18. arauca Banned Banned

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    You can doubt , but if you think in term of sandpaper it may appear more reasonable my mother told me so, Of course for people advanced in technology it is ridicules
     
  19. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    Interestingly, iron has been found in use in Egypt well before the iron age. Apparently, it was meteoritic iron based on its composition. The pieces found were pounded into sheets, then rolled into cylinders, and used for ornamental purposes (necklace strung with them). It's not certain if it found other uses as well.

    It could also be possible that the pre-Incas also found meteoritic iron, and used that for tools. It would have been extremely valuable.
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Duh? The first page of any basic history of the Western Hemisphere will explain that both the Olmec/Maya/Aztec civilization in the north and the Inca civilization in the south had, indeed, advanced into the Bronze Age!

    Rather recently, the remains of a copper mine were found on an island in Lake Michigan, dating back about 5,000 years. Apparently one tribe had taken the first step into the Chalcolithic Era: a transitional era between the Stone Age and the Bronze Age which was so short in most places that it's glossed over in the history books--tin and copper are about equally abundant so the curiosity that discovers copper will soon be repeated in a nearby culture with a lode of tin at its disposal. Unfortunately something happened to these people. Both they and their technology were forgotten. Had they been successful, a civilization to rival the Olmecs might have been founded contemporaneously.

    Yes, the first application of iron was done with meteorites. The "shot" that is "put" in the "shotput" competition was originally a heavy iron meteorite. Whoever could throw it the farthest got to take it home and use it.
     
  21. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    No, this goes back to high school--"the Bronze Age" from the perspective of most of our members.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Wikipedia says that there was no dead-weight throwing contest in ancient Greek competitions, and the earliest event of this type for which we have any evidence was in Scotland around 2000 years ago.
     
  23. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    here is some more about metorite iron in antiquity:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19735959

    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2844401?uid=3739928&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102619030213

    http://www.gizapyramid.com/meteorite.htm

    http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~afs/may96_2.html

    I haven't found any direct links to use of Iron Meteorites by the pre-Inca, but it is quite probable that many sophisticated societies of antiquity would have availed themselves of that opportunity.

    pictures of large iron meteorites: http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/most-massive-single-meteorites-earth/17225
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013

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