Simple experiment from a crank.

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by eram, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    I found this video from John Nordberg, a crank. He demonstrates a simple experiment.


    starts at 1:47, after the dance track

    [video=youtube;9YHOl7OyfsY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YHOl7OyfsY[/video]


    I can't really make out what's going on in his demonstration. Does the magnetic field really curl in the opposite direction?
     
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  3. Tach Banned Banned

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    First off, the guy's claims in terms of consequences of his "experiment" are total nonsense.
    Second off, IF his experiment were correct, the needles of the two superimposed compasses would need to point exactly in 180 degrees opposition, they don't, they show an angle of about 60-70 degrees, that tells you that something else is going on (not what he claims).
    Third off, if the field reversed itself along the equator, as he claims, there would be a discontinuity in the field. In reality, this is impossible.
    So, what is going on with his experiment? Where did he screw up? Hint: he's not showing the COMPLETE setup, he's exactly like the cold fusion con man.
     
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  5. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    Andrea Rossi?

    Interestingly, at the start of the experiment the red ends of the compasses aren't aligned.
    His experiment is very simple, he also encourages viewers to reproduce the experiment, provided they only use single strand and put the compass in the right location.
     
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  7. Tach Banned Banned

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    yep, he's the one.

    So, why don't you try the experiment and debunk him.
     
  8. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's really stupid to lie about a simple experiment. I'll try it and see.

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  9. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Somehow endured the vid till the 6:08 minute mark. How did you not immediately pick up the obvious contradiction at that point? Invert the arrangement - what he terms 'curls' (his field directions - which is nothing like the usual definition of curl) will by symmetry have the same pattern as before, but direction of current flow is reversed - pointing down! His 'symmetry argument' is necessarily completely wrong. Delusional. And further I agree with Tach's commentary in #2. A waste of time to repeat such an experiment.
    [right-hand 'curl rule' MUST apply to both hemispheres, hence lower hemisphere field direction is shown wrong.]
     
  10. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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  11. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Let's hope not. And I wonder if his physical home address is at some institute for the mentally challenged. Note he has been promoting his 'GUT' stuff since the 1990's. Just how many gentle and not-so-gentle correctives he's chosen to ignore in that time is anybody's guess.
     
  12. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    He lives in Minnesota apparently. I wonder what kind of profession he's in.



    You mean you've seen his stuff during the 1990s?

    In some of his videos on bringing water to Africa, he says that he has omitted large amounts of detail. Most probably due to them being flawed and criticized too often as a result.
     
  13. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    My comment was a little tongue-in-cheek, but no surprise if true.
    No. On one of his webpages there is a timeline for his 'breakthrough discoveries' that I recall began around late 1990's. A brief autobio:
    http://www.grandunification.com/hypertext/Main_Pages/A3_Introduction_When.html Hell I don't know; just maybe one of his far-flung ideas is pure genius - but highly unlikely.
    But why go there - as you would likely call it, it's the start of a derailment process to do so. Do you agree with my synopsis of topic at hand in #6?
     
  14. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    In his timeline he says he predicted earthquakes. Yeah right.


    Nah, you can't get derailed. These cranks present their stuff in such a long-winded and un-user-friendly way. It's so hard to read through and understand what they've written.


    I agree. He probably misinterpreted his test results due to stupidity.
    Though I'll probably repeat it for a science fair or something.
     
  15. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I Googled “John Norberg debunked” expecting to find volumes of pages, but that was disappointing.

    I wonder if you could introduce a copper coil into the magnetic field in both hemispheres to see if the current flows in different directions as you move the coils into the field. I may be wrong, but if the curl is opposite in each hemisphere, I think the direction of the current flow through wires introduced into the field of each hemisphere would be opposite if the curl is in fact opposite.
     
  16. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    A deflating result for the gent concerned - likely indicates he just doesn't rate enough in the first place.
    There is one and only one way the 'curl' - or rather sense of field circulation - can reverse as you postulate. And that is if the sphere and feed wires form part of a high frequency circuit where the current has a standing wave pattern. With a node at the sphere equator. But in that case the reversal is entirely a property of current reversal and would be true for a circuit comprised of a wire only; with no sphere in-between. The sphere has no magical properties and it's presence is a red herring. Since the actual scenario is specified as DC current, it is simply impossible for a reversal of field circulation sense to occur. Logically impossible. [It's all down to correctly applying the integral form of the Maxwell-Ampere law]
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  17. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I find him too long-winded already (#11). Though I have quite a low tolerance for walls of text.

    It's good to K.I.S.S. if you can preserve most of the content.



    What about using single strand and not placing the compass within the loop?
     
  18. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Please elaborate on 'single strand' and 'within the loop'. Things can become too KISS!
     
  19. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    In the video, John says we cannot use copper wires twisted in a bundle (4:24 & 8:20) if we are to repeat his test.

    and we must also place the magnet outside the loop. (8:36)


    Are these details important in achieving his result?
     
  20. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    I had first time basically stopped watching his vid at around the 6:30 mark - as mentioned in #6, it's by that point the logical absurdity of his argument is clearly manifest. How could multi-stranded wire make any appreciable difference - Each strand carries the same sign of current as any other. There is nothing sane or sensible to any of his theory and it flatly contradicts one of the basic laws of electromagnetism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_circuital_law
    (I had already added that much as a late edit to #13 btw, where the word rotation was changed to the more correct term circulation)

    The man appears sane and superficially sounds sensible. I guess the one force to his presentation is 'experimental proof'. Notice there are dark rectangular things sticking out at various places along that column of spheres in his setup. Probably ferrous material within that could easily account for the strange compass deflections. It's up to you to decide if he is a genius or a nut - was thinking of adding a clever trickster, but his bio indicates he truly believes in this nonsense. Maxwell-Ampere law cannot be flouted by use of 'magic spheres'. But if doubts linger - go ahead, replicate the setup properly, and report back to us on the results. I will take bets now. :crazy:
     
  21. Tach Banned Banned

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    This is nonsense.

    If you have the magnet inside the loop you will have the influence of all 4 branches of the loop (draw the currents and you'll see). If you have the compasses outside the loop, the influences are still there (see my original comment) but they are less because the effects fall off with the square of distance and the distances are larger.
     
  22. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    It is probably a result of his lackluster experimental skills; he thinks this will have an effect.



    He's probably sane but with a poor grasp of science. Unfortunately it's quite hard for him to start educating himself at this age .

    As I mentioned earlier, it's stupid to lie about such a simple experiment. I'll try to get the experiment done as soon as possible.
     
  23. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    That's awfully charitable to say so, but he implies it is an experimental fact when it simply cannot be true.
    Well at least you will have proved it as nuts. One possible explanation for those bizarre compass readings I hadn't covered earlier:

    His copper sphere (and I assume the steel ones are similar in design) is obviously made by joining two hemispherical shells. Possibly the joint is merely a press fit, without use of brazing/silver-soldering. If so quite possibly conductivity around the equator region joint varies markedly. That would mean a very uneven flow of current over the sphere(s), as the current will track along paths of least resistance. I doubt that is the explanation but just maybe stray current paths would throw out a compass reading. So make sure your own spheres are even in that respect. A straightforward check is to set a suspended current-carrying sphere into gentle torsional oscillation, with compass at a fixed radius. There should be no noticeable variation in deflection of the needle if current distribution is even.
     

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