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Thread: What is quantum entanglement (in terms I can understand)?

  1. #1

    What is quantum entanglement (in terms I can understand)?

    I'm trying to understand quantum entanglement. For instance, how do you entangle 2+ quantum particles? How do you know they're really entangled (how do you know something special is going on)? I've read that some scientists think that quantum wave-functions are real things.

    http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-t...dations-1.9392

    Would anyone like to share their knowledge? The topic is huge and I have a lot of questions. Is quantum entanglement some kind of magic? In the case of electron spin, I think of it as a coin toss where the head and tail can be separated over a distance, yet connected by some unseen agent (like a wave-function).

  2. #2
    I know Dr Quantum is not popular here, but these cartoons are good at explaining...



  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kwhilborn View Post
    I know Dr Quantum is not popular here, but these cartoons are good at explaining...
    It's a good video. The two slit experiment is bizarre. If you don't attempt to measure which slit the photons goes through, they create a wave pattern. If we try to determine which slit the photons (electrons) pass through, they land on the back wall like particles (like a shot gun blast).

    This is what I think is happening. I think that wave-functions exist as a natural phenomenon. As a natural phenomonon, wave-functions allow quantum states to exist. If two electrons are quantumly entangled, and we separate them by some distance, I think there is a wave-function between them, an invisible link between them, that has quantum states for spin up and spin down. If we measure the spin (quantum state) of electron A as spin up, then electron B automatically gets quantum state spin down, because the wave-function (invisible link) has two quantum states: spin up and spin down.

    In a way, photons hitting the back wall in the two slit experiment, are like measurements since we know (or could know) exactly where they land. When we demand to know where the photon is, the wave-function collapses, it vanishes without a trace.

    Does anyone think that wave-functions are not part of reality?

  4. #4
    Valued Senior Member Write4U's Avatar
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    Perhaps entanglement is a form holographic information.
    David Bohm addresses this in his book "Wholeness and the Implicate Order"

    Physicist David Bohm, one of Einstein's protégés, delved yet more deeply into the wave/particle duality mystery. He took the implications of the new physics even farther. He discerned that if the nature of subatomic particles depends on an observer’s perspective, then it is futile to search for a particle’s actual properties, as was science’s goal, or to think that subatomic particles, the essence of matter, even exist before someone observes them. In his plasma experiments at the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory, Bohm found that individual electrons act as part of an interconnected whole. In plasma, a gas composed of electrons and positive ions in high concentration, electrons more or less assume the nature of a self-regulating organism, as if they were inherently intelligent. Bohm found, to his amazement, that the subatomic sea he created was conscious. By extension, the vast sub-atomic reality that is material creation may also be said to be conscious. To those who foresaw the implications, Bohm shattered the useful but limiting premise that led science to its many achievements in modern times, crossing a new barrier, beyond which lurked the unknown, a scientific twilight zone. Intellectual observation, it turned out, the fulcrum of the scientific method since Francis Bacon, could only take an observer so far.
    http://fusionanomaly.net/davidbohm.html

  5. #5

    Thumbs up

    @ Mazulu,
    Does anyone think that wave-functions are not part of reality?
    I have strong beliefs in things like telepathy and precognition.

    I have given much thought to that question and believe that sometimes our lives involve synchronicity as termed by Carl Jung. If such synchronicity is true then our past must be alterable which seems like a very insane thought from a pragmatic look at reality.

    How then can Synchronicity occur?

    I think that we all are living in superposition (larger Schrodinger box), and that our past can alter until we are "collapsed" by wigner, and then again by wigners friend, and then again, by wigners friends friend, etc. I think that when a person collapses a schrodingers box reality the cat does not have a 50/50 chance of being alive or dead, and instead I think that the cat will be alive or dead based on expectation. A positive person may find the cat alive, and a negative person may find the cat dead. I believe thoughts strongly affect our reality and this is how to explain that.

    Anyways...
    My view is certainly not the popular one here on sciforums, but Not as many here are looking to explain paranormal events which I feel must be answered in any scenario.

    I know if this type of talk persists we will find this thread moved to pseudoscience.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by write4
    Perhaps entanglement is a form holographic information.
    David Bohm addresses this in his book "Wholeness and the Implicate Order"
    I think that holographic information is part of QM.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwhilborn
    I have strong beliefs in things like telepathy and precognition.
    I believe those things are possible, but not as "information", not as 1's and 0's.

    I was thinking about wave-functions when is struck me. Wave-functions, as a phenomena of nature, are a collection of quantum states. Examples of quantum states are: spin, polarization, energy level, phase, energy, frequency, etc. Particles have to obey the speed of light, but quantum states don't. Quantum states just tell you how the particle will be displayed; they are display parameters. Display parameters (quantum states) are not bound by the speed of light. Unfortunately, they can't be used to signal faster than c.

    I was looking at the 2 slit (many slit) experiment when it struck me. Quantum states move like waves in water through the slits because quantum states move like waves. Particles have to appear with a measured quantum state. If you close all but one slit, there are very few quantum states available; furthermore, only a rate "r" of photons can get through per second. But if you use two slits, then there are twice as many quantum states available, and the rate of photons getting through is 2r. If you open up 1000 slits, then there are that many more quantum states available.

    Quantum states move like waves, like quantum waves. Photons will take whatever quantum state that is available or it won't appear. In that sense, there is a holographic phenomena at play. If there are no quantum states available, then no photons or electrons can appear. Open up all the slits, and the quantum states will flow through like waves in water.

    I guess I'm still masaging the idea.

  7. #7
    @ mazulu,

    Particles have to obey the speed of light, but quantum states don't. Quantum states just tell you how the particle will be displayed; they are display parameters.
    If you are trying to propose a new theory or idea this is not the correct area of the forum.

    As for the above quote, all of the particles passing in the double slit experiment must be within normal math upon measurement/collapse. So they could not travel faster than light.

    Entanglement is unrelated to the double slit experiment.

  8. #8
    Valued Senior Member Write4U's Avatar
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    As far as I know entanglement can only involve two particles and that each particle is the perfect opposite of the other. This smacks of a mirror function to me.
    Which begs the question if a hologram has an inherent mirror function. As each part of the hologram knows all the parts of the hologram, seems to me that an instantaneous mirror function (entanglement) is not only possible but an elegant solution.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kwhilborn View Post
    @ mazulu,
    If you are trying to propose a new theory or idea this is not the correct area of the forum.
    No new theory. I'll just stick with my interpretation that the wave-function describes a phenomenon of nature and is part of reality. How else can quantum entanglement be explained? It has to be an invisible link/connection. Apparently, nature allows invisible links to exist.

    As for the above quote, all of the particles passing in the double slit experiment must be within normal math upon measurement/collapse. So they could not travel faster than light.
    Particles are subject to a speed of light restriction.

    Entanglement is unrelated to the double slit experiment.
    They're both described with wave-functions.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post
    As far as I know entanglement can only involve two particles and that each particle is the perfect opposite of the other. This smacks of a mirror function to me.
    Which begs the question if a hologram has an inherent mirror function. As each part of the hologram knows all the parts of the hologram, seems to me that an instantaneous mirror function (entanglement) is not only possible but an elegant solution.
    I've heard that as many as 8 photons have been quantumly entangled (all with the same polarization).

  11. #11
    Valued Senior Member Write4U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    I've heard that as many as 8 photons have been quantumly entangled (all with the same polarization).
    Here are some interesting presentations

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmrHMBW36w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-EE-...eature=related

  12. #12
    Valued Senior Member Write4U's Avatar
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    and last but not least,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o5FMTHkLQg

    I wonder if the BB and beginning of our universe was not a simple iteration of a much larger fractal hologram.

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