Who put God in charge?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Voodoo Child, Oct 14, 2002.

  1. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    A question for one of the God squad:

    What gives God the right to decide where we go after life/ interfere with us?
    He created us perhaps, but in the same way parents don't have absolute authority over their adult children be shouldn't necessarily have authority over us.
    He was never elected, no one put him in charge. Where does his authority come from?

    It is a reasonably elementary theological question, in sure it has a reasonable answer, I just don't see it.
     
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  3. The All Knowing Registered Member

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    What gives God the right to decide where we go after life/ interfere with us?

    God doesn't decide where you go after death, you do. If you live your life justly you will be saved. if not, you can go to be with Lucifer in the afterlife. Its your choice.

    He created us perhaps, but in the same way parents don't have absolute authority over their adult children be shouldn't necessarily have authority over us.

    We have free will. You need to stop being a victim and live your life. God has authority over the universe, so why wouldn't he have it over you. Me thinks your ego is a little big.

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    He was never elected, no one put him in charge. Where does his authority come from?

    He created the universe, so why not put himself in charge. Do you want him to put you in charge of things. LOL

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    It is a reasonably elementary theological question, in sure it has a reasonable answer, I just don't see it.

    Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
     
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  5. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    "God doesn't decide where you go after death, you do. If you live your life justly you will be saved. if not, you can go to be with Lucifer in the afterlife. Its your choice."

    Yes, I understand this, but I wish to understand to what gives him the right to impose this scheme on us. He chooses what is good, He chooses the reward that good gets. He chooses the reward that bad gets. He has given us limited choice, but he has still chosen what we get to chose. Where does his authority come from. And Jesus Christ, talk about coercion: you can choose to be bad.... of course you are going to burn in the firey cauldrons of hell for all eternity.

    "We have free will."

    Do we? Though, I suppose that this is an acceptable assumption is you assume God exists.

    "You need to stop being a victim and live your life."
    Eh? We are or aren't victims regardless of whether we think we are or aren't victims.

    "God has authority over the universe, so why wouldn't he have it over you. Me thinks your ego is a little big."

    You are basically just restating the thesis. Why does/should God have this authority?

    "He created the universe, so why not put himself in charge. Do you want him to put you in charge of things. LOL"

    That there is no reason against is not a reason for. You have not provided justification for the idea that you have authority over what you create, esp. if it is sentient.
     
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  7. The All Knowing Registered Member

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    Yes, I understand this, but I wish to understand to what gives him the right to impose this scheme on us. He chooses what is good, He chooses the reward that good gets. He chooses the reward that bad gets. He has given us limited choice, but he has still chosen what we get to chose. Where does his authority come from. And Jesus Christ, talk about coercion: you can choose to be bad.... of course you are going to burn in the firey cauldrons of hell for all eternity.

    God has the right because he created the universe. We are his creations and he can do with us as he sees fit. The problem with your arguement is that you are putting yourself at God's level, when in fact you not.

    Do we? Though, I suppose that this is an acceptable assumption is you assume God exists.

    Of course we have free will.

    Eh? We are or aren't victims regardless of whether we think we are or aren't victims.

    I agree, we're not victims and you need to stop thinking like one.

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    You are basically just restating the thesis. Why does/should God have this authority?

    Beacuse he created the universe and he hasn't decided to give it up. As his creations, he has authority over us.

    That there is no reason against is not a reason for. You have not provided justification for the idea that you have authority over what you create, esp. if it is sentient.

    This is pretty basic, God creates the universe, therefore he has the right to set moral laws of it's content.
     
  8. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    Me: That there is no reason against is not a reason for. You have not provided justification for the idea that you have authority over what you create, esp. if it is sentient.

    You: This is pretty basic, God creates the universe, therefore he has the right to set moral laws of it's content.

    You are just restating the thing you are supposed to be proving.
     
  9. The All Knowing Registered Member

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    I'm not sure what justification your looking for. Are you suggesting that God shouldn't have the right to set the moral laws of a universe he created?
     
  10. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    All Knowing:
    A: Lucifer is not Satan. There is a difference.

    B: Mark 16:16, Gal 3:11. Living a just life is not enough.

    Actually, I'd be interested in having one of our Christian posters reconcile Mk 16:16, Rom 5:1 and Gal 3:11 with Mt.16:27 and 1 Pet.1:17.
     
  11. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    I'm trying to find out if there IS a justification, perhaps a social contract type arrangement, or his authority just extends from his power.
     
  12. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    For what it's worth, there is no place in the Bible or Torah (to my knowledge) in which God justifies His law.

    As for "contracts", the closest you come to those is the Covenent with Abraham and with the Jews, then there is a later "covenent" with mankind - if you believe in Christianity - through salvation by Christ.

    *Edit to address Tyler*

    Yes, G-d never needs to justify His power. He is what He is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2002
  13. The All Knowing Registered Member

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    A: Lucifer is not Satan. There is a difference.

    Actually, Lucifer was Satan's name before he was casted out of Heaven.

    B: Mark 16:16, Gal 3:11. Living a just life is not enough.

    Mark 16:16
    That's a matter of interpretation. Baptisms are a symbolic ceremony representing the death, burial and resurrection, both of Jesus and ourselves. I don't believe you literally have to be baptized, but instead live your life as outlined by Christ.

    Gal 3:11 and Rom 5:1 make the assertion that we need faith in order to be saved. However, I would trust that God has taken note of the terrible state of the institution of Christianity, and perhaps allows the broader faith of "love" that Jesus preached. It is hard to imagine that he would condemn people for not putting faith in a corrupt institution(Modern institutions of Christianity) that have dishonored his message.

    Mat 16:27 talks of the final judgement.

    1 Pet.1:17 talks of the transition of non-believers into believers.
     
  14. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    *Raises an eyebrow*

    What is your source on this? The mythology of evil has always fascinated me, and I've never heard this one before.

    I did not mean baptism per se is needed according to Mark 16:16, I was more pointing to

    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    It would seem a reasonable interpretation to say that belief is enough for salvation, and disbelief - no matter how many good works you do - means you're damned.

    Gal 3:11:
    But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    The law=works, yes? This has been standard interpretation since Luther.

    Rom 5:1
    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Justification is, again, through faith.

    Oh no. Please don't tell me we have another round of "THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IZ THE WHOR OF REVELATINS!!!!!!".

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    Yes, and states that we will be judged by our works, not by whether we have faith.

    Mat 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Faith is not mentioned. It seems fair to think it irrelevent in this passage, yes?

    1 Pet 1:17:
    And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    God is not a respecter of persons or their faith, he judges according to works.
     
  15. GB-GIL Trans-global Senator Evilcheese, D-Iraq Registered Senior Member

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    Reasons for a pre-emptive attack on God

    1. God is a dictator.
    2. God has chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons ready to launch at his command.
    3. God has gassed his own people (Jews in WWII)
    4. We have good evidence that God is a conspirator in terrorism. His terrorist nickname is "Allah", among other names. We know this because most other terrorists swear by him and openly declare their alliances with him, so he is the most obvious terrorist there is.
    5. God has let his nation spiral into chaos while only caring about himself and a small circle of people.
    6. God hates loads of people, including the US and its allies (as is evidenced by many witnesses from around the world)
    7. God uses real human beings as his playthings.

    Now give me one good reason why we SHOULDN'T launch an attack on God

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  16. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    If we talk like that then God has already won. And if you are not for him you are against him. And we won't know his intentions until we see a mushroom cloud over the horizon. Also, he is an evil man that kills his own people.
     
  17. GB-GIL Trans-global Senator Evilcheese, D-Iraq Registered Senior Member

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    1,718
    And he's part of an Axis of Evil (God, the Angels, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya), aiming to destroy the Allies (Satan, the US, Britain, etc.)
     
  18. yumyum The All Knowing.. I think Registered Senior Member

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    knowing is all the battle

    why does everything have to be interpreted why cant god just say what he wants
     
  19. Ekimklaw Believer in God Registered Senior Member

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    Hate to say it...

    First of all Voodoo Child... your moniker "kill your President" is VERY offensive. Please change it.

    ==============================================
    Voodoo Child wrote:
    A question for one of the God squad:
    ==============================================

    I'm assuming you mean that you are directing your question to a Christian.

    ==============================================
    Voodoo Child wrote:
    What gives God the right to decide where we go after life/ interfere with us?
    ==============================================

    It depends... do you think God exists or not?

    Whether you believe he is real, or a figment of imagination will determine whether your question is relevant or not.

    ==============================================
    Voodoo Child wrote:
    He created us perhaps, but in the same way parents don't have absolute authority over their adult children be shouldn't necessarily have authority over us.
    ==============================================

    Says you. Who died and left you in charge?

    ==============================================
    Voodoo Child wrote:
    He was never elected, no one put him in charge. Where does his authority come from?
    ==============================================

    He created us, and in fact ALL of reality.

    ==============================================
    Voodoo Child wrote:
    It is a reasonably elementary theological question, in sure it has a reasonable answer, I just don't see it.
    ==============================================

    That's like asking why the Earth has the right to impose the law of gravity on people of Earth. It's because the law of gravity (and many other physical laws) is part of the original setup.

    Similarly when God created the universe he created it with immutable moral laws. You are free to believe it or not.

    -Mike
     
  20. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Mike:
    The question is interesting and relevent regardless of whether or not God exists.

    God.
     
  21. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    1,296
    Why would I do that? It's already very offensive.

    No. Any theist

    No it doesn't. If I don't believe God exists then I can still access the the coherence of the God myth.

    No one died and left me in charge. Same for God. Generally this idea of adult autonomy is quite universally present across people and cultures.

    So? The All-Knowing has said this a few times. Now explain why you forever keep authority over something that you have created, when it is self-aware.

    The problem with this analogy should be obvious to most: neither the earth nor gravity can choose not to apply themselves to people. They have no consciousness and no choice.

    That's just spiffy. Do we know what they are yet?
     
  22. The All Knowing Registered Member

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    Here's a link that will give you alot of info on the Bible and Satan.
    http://www.bible.com/answers/asatan.html
    "God is not a respecter of persons or their faith, he judges according to works."

    You are so right, this is my view also.

    Galations was a letter written to pagan converts at a time in which some missionaries were trying to undermine Paul's authority, and were trying to add Jewish law to Christianity.

    Paul in my opinion is trying to convince the Galatians that faith in God's law, not man's law, is the only way. Those who live a just life are following God's law. Faith in what's right and wrong by God's law is what you need to be saved. The moral standards of society(in general), are based on God's law, and most people follow these. Obvoisuly though, many governments have tried to corrupt these morals with hate, and turned many away from believe the Gospel outright..

    Both Matthew and Peter write that it's the way we live, not "faith", that determines if your saved.
     
  23. m0rl0ck Consume! Conform! Obey! Registered Senior Member

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    This particular tribal semite warrior god got alot of converts because of agriculture, if women plough they miscarry and the sex that controls the economy gets to decide what sex the deity is going to be.

    If the followers of this childish brat, pissant little tinpot dictator, god dont kill us first, the keyboard will likely be the instrument of his undoing.
     

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