The Issue of Legitimate Rape

**joepistole** · 08-20-12, 03:01 PM

Senate Republican candidate and Tea Party favorite Congressman Todd Akin says that in cases of legitimate rape, women can prevent getting pregnant – so the physicians tell him. So if women are legitimately raped; they have the option of getting pregnant or not therefore there is no need for an abortion in the instance of rape. And just what is legitimate rape exactly?

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," said Akin, who was explaining the basis of his rigid pro-life stance. "But let's assume maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist." - Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...elections-2012

Congressman Akin meet Christine O’Donnell, Sharon Angle also former Republican (Tea Party) candidates for the Senate. Congressman Akin was leading in the polls before this comment. Akin’s frankness may make what was viewed as a potential Senate win for Republicans in Missouri this fall, a competitive Senate race.

It would appear that these Republican/Tea Party candidates just cannot refrain from making bizarre statements and claims. It has become their brand. So what does that say about the Republican/Tea Party? Is this the future of the Republican/Tea Party? I think this is what happens when you have uneducated, drug addicted and immoral folks like Limbaugh making Republican/Tea Party policy. According to Limbaugh’s mom in referring to Limbaugh, "he flunked everything". And this is the man developing Republican/Tea Party policy and leading the party. So it should not be a surprise that we see more and more of this kind of strange behavior from this party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh

**spidergoat** · 08-20-12, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by joepistole

Senate Republican...

You know, those women who claim rape just to get an abortion.

**Balerion** · 08-20-12, 03:29 PM

What can be said? Even Republicans are bailing on this clown.

This is why the Tea Party will never be the force it was predicted in the heat of its popularity. Frighteningly stupid comments like this will find air, and there can be no defense for them besides ignorance. Still, I'd love to see the comment in context.

**joepistole** · 08-20-12, 04:01 PM

And even more surprising, if such a thing is possible, Congressman Akin sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology!

Apparently, Akin’s rape notions are not out of the mainstream in Republican/Tea Party thinking.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...edefining-rape

**Trippy** · 08-20-12, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by joepistole

And even more surprising, if such a thing is possible, Congressman Akin sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology!

Given the slash-and-burn approach of this committee to Science, Space and Technology, is it really that surprising?

**Tiassa** · 08-20-12, 07:56 PM

Don't forget Ken Buck. Remember him? The Colorado Republican narrowly defeated in 2010 who once, as prosecutor, declined to file rape charges when he had a confession because he thought the woman deserved it?

**Bells** · 08-20-12, 10:00 PM

You have to wonder how Romney is going to deal with this, aside from the current sprint in the opposite direction, when one considers that Ryan co-sponsored an anti-abortion bill with Akin:

Mr Romney's vice-presidential running mate, congressman Paul Ryan, partnered with Akin in 2009 to co-sponsor a "personhood bill" which declared a fertilized egg is entitled to the same legal rights as a person, and would have essentially outlawed abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

"I'm as pro-life as a person gets," Ryan told the conservative Weekly Standard magazine in 2010.

**joepistole** · 08-21-12, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bells

You have to wonder how Romney is going to deal with this, aside from the current sprint in the opposite direction, when one considers that Ryan co-sponsored an anti-abortion bill with Akin:

He will do what he always does in situations like this, lie his tail off. He and his staff will invent a fiction and then try to pass it off as truth and hope people will not notice.

**wynn** · 08-21-12, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by joepistole

Senate Republican candidate and Tea Party favorite Congressman Todd Akin says that in cases of legitimate rape, women can prevent getting pregnant – so the physicians tell him. So if women are legitimately raped; they have the option of getting pregnant or not therefore there is no need for an abortion in the instance of rape. And just what is legitimate rape exactly?

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," said Akin, who was explaining the basis of his rigid pro-life stance. "But let's assume maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist." - Huffington Post

Interestingly, the first time I have heard this kind of view was from an old hippie.

He was against abortion and not particularly in favor of the use of contraceptives; he believed that conception can occur only when there is desire to conceive - and that thus, if a woman gets pregnant, this means she wanted to get pregnant, regardless of the circumstances of conception (ie. even if in rape).

**joepistole** · 08-21-12, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by wynn

Interestingly, the first time I have heard this kind of view was from an old hippie.

He was against abortion and not particularly in favor of the use of contraceptives; he believed that conception can occur only when there is desire to conceive - and that thus, if a woman gets pregnant, this means she wanted to get pregnant, regardless of the circumstances of conception (ie. even if in rape).

Apparently it is not an uncommon view for those who are staunchly anti-abortion and birth control as there are a number of conservative politicians who have made this belief known before. But the "liberal media" being liberal media never paid much attention to them. Congressman Ryan, Romney's VP nominee, has co-sponsored legislation with Akin to define a new kind of rape, forcible rape. I thought all rape was forcible, apparently Republicans, at least Ryan and Akin, think that is not the case.

**Bells** · 08-21-12, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by joepistole

Apparently it is not an uncommon view for those who are staunchly anti-abortion and birth control as there are a number of conservative politicians who have made this belief known before. But the "liberal media" being liberal media never paid much attention to them. Congressman Ryan, Romney's VP nominee, has co-sponsored legislation with Akin to define a new kind of rape, forcible rape. I thought all rape was forcible, apparently Republicans, at least Ryan and Akin, think that is not the case.

It raises some disturbing questions. This story has gained some traction here, in Australia and the over-all response is one of astonishment.

From your OP:

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," said Akin

Does that mean if she falls pregnant, it may not have really been a "legitimate rape"? That she somehow wanted it to happen and she wanted to fall pregnant and thus, her body allowed that to happen?

And then he makes it worse. Again, from your OP:

"But let's assume maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist."

"Some punishment", because it isn't really a legitimate rape?

Therefore, the rapist should not face full punishment, but just some, because well, she fell pregnant, so it cannot have been a fully "legitimate rape".. So he should face "some punishment".

He has of course backtracked from these comments. But with his history in attempting to redefine rape, in the bid to push his anti-abortion agenda, I think the calls for his resignation are not just because of this little verbal mistake, but because they are finally recognising that he is putting their women's issues right on the front line and Ryan, the Vice Presidential nominee will not want to face questions about why he co-sponsored Bills with this individual and why he is now backing away from it and suddenly finding Akin's view of rape to be abhorrent.

**joepistole** · 08-21-12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bells

It raises some disturbing questions. This story has gained some traction here, in Australia and the over-all response is one of astonishment.

From your OP:

Does that mean if she falls pregnant, it may not have really been a "legitimate rape"? That she somehow wanted it to happen and she wanted to fall pregnant and thus, her body allowed that to happen?

And then he makes it worse. Again, from your OP

"Some punishment", because it isn't really a legitimate rape?

Therefore, the rapist should not face full punishment, but just some, because well, she fell pregnant, so it cannot have been a fully "legitimate rape".. So he should face "some punishment".

He has of course backtracked from these comments. But with his history in attempting to redefine rape, in the bid to push his anti-abortion agenda, I think the calls for his resignation are not just because of this little verbal mistake, but because they are finally recognising that he is putting their women's issues right on the front line and Ryan, the Vice Presidential nominee will not want to face questions about why he co-sponsored Bills with this individual and why he is now backing away from it and suddenly finding Akin's view of rape to be abhorrent.

I visited Sean Hannity’s (a leading Republican commentator/host Fox News) blog yesterday; Hannity’s devotees were explaining the basis for Akin’s comments. And you are correct in your assessment. The rationale goes this way, if the female is truly stressed (e.g. raped) she will not conceive and as evidence they offer that for couples having difficulty conceiving, physicians often recommend relaxation as an aide to fertilization. Thus they conclude stress prevents women from becoming pregnant.

So the reasoning goes according to the Hannity blog, that if the female conceived during a sex act, she was not stressed. Therefore, she was not really raped. I hate to call it reasoning or thinking, but this kind of thinking is unfortunately all too common with the American right wing.

Now Hannity is urging Akin to drop out, not because of his positions but because he like many other Republican leaders realize the political damage these comments can inflict on the Republican Party this fall. Thank God, not all Americans think this way.

**Bells** · 08-21-12, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by joepistole

Now Hannity is urging Akin to drop out, not because of his positions but because he like many other Republican leaders realize the political damage these comments can inflict on the Republican Party this fall.

And that is the issue.

He is not being asked to stand out because his comments were abhorrent and frankly, so full of untruth's that it is quite embarrassing to even watch.

He is being asked to stand down because it is an election year and they will not want Voters to be drawn into this falsehood and not vote for them. So pretend that everything his hunky dory and hope for the best...

**quadraphonics** · 08-21-12, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by joepistole

So the reasoning goes according to the Hannity blog, that if the female conceived during a sex act, she was not stressed. Therefore, she was not really raped. I hate to call it reasoning or thinking, but this kind of thinking is unfortunately all too common with the American right wing.

The term for this is "magical thinking." In this case it goes: I oppose abortion, but I don't have a good answer to the issue of pregnancy arising from rape, therefore pregnancy never results from rape, therefore any rape that results in pregnancy was not "real rape."

There's a lot of this in the right wing discourse these days: I want tax cuts and a balanced budget, therefore tax cuts raise revenue. I don't want to pay for carbon emissions, therefore global warming does not exist/is not caused by human activity. I don't want to teach my kids about sex or birth control, therefore abstinence only education means kids won't have sex. I don't want to pay taxes to fund the social safety net, therefore tax cuts for me create jobs. I don't like it when my party is out of power, therefore Obama is a Nazi Communist who wants to steal my guns.

Frankly, it's difficult to think of much of anything on the right these days that isn't this kind of craven pandering to perversely self-serving worldviews.

**~~Gustav~~** · 08-21-12, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Balerion

What can be said? Even Republicans are bailing on this clown.

This is why the Tea Party will never be the force it was predicted in the heat of its popularity. Frighteningly stupid comments like this will find air, and there can be no defense for them besides ignorance. Still, I'd love to see the comment in context.

indeed
the actual context might render the comments logical, innocuous and utterly defensible but all records, video/transcripts, have mysteriously vanished off the face of the earth.

i suspect a liberal/leftist media plot with joe as the ringleader of a gang (bells quad tiassa) of commie loons

**joepistole** · 08-21-12, 01:36 PM

Well it appears that while some Republicans are rebuking Akins others are standing behind Akin and his comments on rape.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/...cil-backs-akin

**joepistole** · 08-21-12, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by quadraphonics

The term for this is "magical thinking." In this case it goes: I oppose abortion, but I don't have a good answer to the issue of pregnancy arising from rape, therefore pregnancy never results from rape, therefore any rape that results in pregnancy was not "real rape."

There's a lot of this in the right wing discourse these days: I want tax cuts and a balanced budget, therefore tax cuts raise revenue. I don't want to pay for carbon emissions, therefore global warming does not exist/is not caused by human activity. I don't want to teach my kids about sex or birth control, therefore abstinence only education means kids won't have sex. I don't want to pay taxes to fund the social safety net, therefore tax cuts for me create jobs. I don't like it when my party is out of power, therefore Obama is a Nazi Communist who wants to steal my guns.

Frankly, it's difficult to think of much of anything on the right these days that isn't this kind of craven pandering to perversely self-serving worldviews.

That is a very accurate assessment.

**Trippy** · 08-21-12, 06:31 PM

I came across this: Other Things Missouri Representative Todd Akin Believes To Be True About The Uterus, Besides Its Ability To "Shut Down" A Legitimate Rape

The sad thing is that I have no idea if it's genuine or a parody - I'm assuming it's a parody, but I have no basis for that assumption.

**Bells** · 08-21-12, 06:52 PM

I would say that it is a parody.

However his comments are vile. Worse still, the man has some support...

Romney and Ryan could be unsuccessful at severing ties with the Akin mindset. Ryan, in addition to having sponsored a federal fetal personhood law that would force rape victims to go through with their pregnancies, plans to headline the "Values Voter Summit" next month alongside a number of prominent Akin supporters. The Family Research Council, the primary sponsor of the event, came to Akin's defense Monday, telling Politico that it still supports Akin "fully and completely."

FRC president Tony Perkins lashed out at Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) for saying Akin should drop out of his Senate race. “[Brown] should be careful, because based on some of his statements there may be call for him to get out of his race,” he said. “He has been off the reservation on a number of Republican issues."

Romney, RH Reality Check points out, has accepted the endorsement of Dr. John Willke, a prominent anti-abortion doctor. Willke, president of the Life Issues Institute, wrote a book with a chapter on rape from which Akin could have easily pulled his facts:

"Her body is upset," Willke writes, referring to the rape victim. "Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle ... Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain which is easily influenced by emotions. There’s no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy."

It does get worse.

Romney has sought the endorsement of Willke and he has received it in the past and there is at least one conservative group which thinks Akin is correct.

This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last.

However, some facts about rape and pregnancy, as reported by the BBC:

There are more than 32,000 pregnancies from rape each year, the Centers for Disease Control says

A woman who has been raped "has no control over ovulation, fertilization or implantation of a fertilized egg (pregnancy)," says the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

The same group says that annually, between 10,000 and 15,000 abortions take place as a result of incest or rape

**ElectricFetus** · 08-22-12, 11:08 AM

So they operate on the hypothesis that rape trauma will prevent pregnancy, it sounds anatomically feasible, but do they have any evidence for this? Any numbers on its efficacy? Now if they had proof that the chance of pregnancy from rape was say 1/100 that of consensual sex then this would help validate their argument that abortion in cases of rape in unnecessary, but they have no such proof, in fact pregnancy rates from rape have not been found considerably lower then consensual sex.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...nancy/261307/#

This throws the whole argument out that somehow "legitimate" rape can be separated from women claiming to be raped to get abortions. They must argue strictly on the grounds that the baby is worthwhile even if its a product of rape.