Pakistani Parents Sentenced to "at least 25 years" for Honor-Killing of Daughter

[seagypsy]

such simplistic platitudes have no place in a science forum
one would hope a supportive argument would be made that pertains to this particular case
there is none to be had except for the most insipid of generalities

thread to cess
jdawg to the boards over at aol

I second that motion.

[James R]

Is anybody going to discuss the topic, or are we just going to trade personal comments here?

[seagypsy]

Is anybody going to discuss the topic, or are we just going to trade personal comments here?

We were discussing it but Balerion started with his badgering and insulting, because people aren't agreeing with him. He has lied, accusing me of saying things that I didn't and failed to produce proof of what he accused me of and resorted to personal attacks (calling me intellectually bankrupt) when he was called on lying. His comebacks to legitimate arguments are insulting, he even insulted Fraggle Rocker when he posted a legitimate hypothesis. He has managed to derail his own thread by his bullying of those who disagree with him.

[Balerion]

There is nothing to retract. You LIED. And you have resorted to personal insults. Do not claim to have meant something else. I already asked you to clarify and you did. You called me intellectually bankrupt and that is a personal attack. This is your usual tactic. When someone disagrees with you on a subject which is nearly impossible to prove by scientific methods, in other words, philosophical ideals or social phenomenon, you dismiss any experience or observation another person has if it contradicts your interpretation of reality. The whole of humanity cannot see through your eyes any more than they can all see through mine. I have shared your perspective in the past, but more experience and critical introspection have lead me to a different interpretation. You are welcome to justify your hatred towards whatever you choose any way you choose. I am trying to rise above hating. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not a fact. My opinions are also just opinions. You may feel anyway you please about that. Unlike you, I will not end every argument with a demand for concession. Your opinion means little to me. Why my opinion matters to you anyway is beyond me, I'm just intellectually bankrupt in your eyes anyway.

Go ahead and report me. I am guilty of disagreeing with you and pointing out that you lied about my words.You are guilty of lying and making personal attacks. Which have both already been reported.

Reported troll is reported.

[Balerion]

Is anybody going to discuss the topic, or are we just going to trade personal comments here?

It's difficult to discuss the topic when the other person's "arguments" are all ad hom and accusations of lying. I have asked her to clarify her position, but she has abandoned her entire argument in lieu of personal attacks.

Is it wrong to demand that a person provides some evidence for their accusations?

[seagypsy]

Reported troll is reported.

yeah it's pretty sad when someone trolls their own thread.

[Balerion]

yeah it's pretty sad when someone trolls their own thread.

It is, but that's not what's happening here. You're trolling my thread.

You can salvage some of your dignity here by admitting you were just being defensive when you accused me of lying. Take a while and think about it.

[seagypsy]

It's difficult to discuss the topic when the other person's "arguments" are all ad hom and accusations of lying. I have asked her to clarify her position, but she has abandoned her entire argument in lieu of personal attacks.

Is it wrong to demand that a person provides some evidence for their accusations?

What personal attacks have I made? I have only accused you of one lie. Although accusing me now of personal attacks can be added to that. And the one lie I accused you of, you failed to back up. So it stands as a lie. Calling someone intellectually bankrupt is a personal attack. I haven't called you any names or suggested that you lack intelligence in anyway.

[seagypsy]

It is, but that's not what's happening here. You're trolling my thread.

You can salvage some of your dignity here by admitting you were just being defensive when you accused me of lying. Take a while and think about it.

There is nothing to admit. You made a claim that I said something that I did not say. That is a lie. So you lied. Then you called me intellectually bankrupt, which I gave you a chance to correct my interpretation of your words and you confirmed that you were indeed calling me intellectually bankrupt. THAT is a personal attack. Take a while and think about it.

[seagypsy]

It is, but that's not what's happening here. You're trolling my thread.

You can salvage some of your dignity here by admitting you were just being defensive when you accused me of lying. Take a while and think about it.

Are fraggle rocker and gustav also trolling your thread?

You have even accused Fraggle Rocker of spamming. If reiterating some knowledge or opinion on a subject and being consistent is spamming then you are also guilty of spamming the Islam is evil bit all over the forum.

[Balerion]

What personal attacks have I made? I have only accused you of one lie. Although accusing me now of personal attacks can be added to that. And the one lie I accused you of, you failed to back up. So it stands as a lie. Calling someone intellectually bankrupt is a personal attack. I haven't called you any names or suggested that you lack intelligence in anyway.

Oh, another lie! What a surprise...

I simply don't have the superiority complex that you are displaying here.

You are living up to your primitive need to be right

Ooops!

There is nothing to admit. You made a claim that I said something that I did not say. That is a lie.

Except that it's exactly what you said. For example:

People have been committing murder since way before Islam and I am gonna go out on a limb and suggest we have been murdering each other since way before any organized religion ever formed. It's in our (human beings) nature to do so. Always has been and likely always will be.

I blame the people who commit the acts for their actions. Not their religion or the media or the boogy man. The people who commit the crimes are to blame for their own behavior.

I don't see what happened to this girl as honor killing. I see it as murder.

It wasn't until your most recent posts that you finally change your tune and admit that Islam causes this stuff to happen, but not before you said the direct opposite of that for two whole pages. Where's the lie here, seagypsy? What do I have wrong about this?

Own up to your mistakes. You made a big one here, but you can correct it and save some face.

[Balerion]

Are fraggle rocker and gustav also trolling your thread?

You have even accused Fraggle Rocker of spamming. If reiterating some knowledge or opinion on a subject and being consistent is spamming then you are also guilty of spamming the Islam is evil bit all over the forum.

The obvious difference is that Fraggle has heard intelligent and thoughtful arguments against his position, and chosen to ignore them for some reason. My contention that Islam is the vilest of three exceptionally disgusting faiths has yet to be countered with any such argument. All I run up against are people who consider criticism of religion to be bigotry, or people like you, who blindly defend the faith for personal reasons.

[seagypsy]

Oh, another lie! What a surprise...




Ooops!



Except that it's exactly what you said. For example:





It wasn't until your most recent posts that you finally change your tune and admit that Islam causes this stuff to happen, but not before you said the direct opposite of that for two whole pages. Where's the lie here, seagypsy? What do I have wrong about this?

Own up to your mistakes. You made a big one here, but you can correct it and save some face.

I will give you the superiority complex remark, only because I am not a psychiatrist and I haven't evaluated you professionally. But you have been very condescending (implying that I am lying about my experiences and ordering me to stop talking) towards me at every chance you get and that, to me, reflects a superiority complex.

The remark about a primitive need to be right is not directed at you exclusively but I admit I should have worded it more clearly. I should have said, you are exercising the same primitive need to be right that we all have and struggle with.


You did LIE. None of the quotes you gave of mine say that Islam cannot inspire one to commit murder. Perhaps you don't know the difference between inspiration and responsibility. If someone says that a beautiful woman inspired them to make a painting of angels, does that mean the source of inspiration is responsible for the painting? NO.

[seagypsy]

The obvious difference is that Fraggle has heard intelligent and thoughtful arguments against his position, and chosen to ignore them for some reason. My contention that Islam is the vilest of three exceptionally disgusting faiths has yet to be countered with any such argument. All I run up against are people who consider criticism of religion to be bigotry, or people like you, who blindly defend the faith for personal reasons.

You have also had thoughtful and intelligent arguments against your position but you ignore them. So as I say, if he is spamming so are you. For that matter so all atheists, theists, physicists, biologists, omg everyone on here spams if they stick to what they believe to be true regardless of what is presented as an argument. how about that. we must all be spammers.

[Balerion]

I will give you the superiority complex remark, only because I am not a psychiatrist and I haven't evaluated you professionally. But you have been very condescending (implying that I am lying about my experiences and ordering me to stop talking) towards me at every chance you get and that, to me, reflects a superiority complex.

I could care less what you're willing to give me. The proof is on the page. You're in no position to negotiate here.

The remark about a primitive need to be right is not directed at you exclusively but I admit I should have worded it more clearly. I should have said, you are exercising the same primitive need to be right that we all have and struggle with.

Again, try to weasel your way out of it all you like, the proof is on the page. You insinuate that I am somehow less than civilized for failing to keep what you (wrongly) consider to be a baser need.

You did LIE. None of the quotes you gave of mine say that Islam cannot inspire one to commit murder. Perhaps you don't know the difference between inspiration and responsibility. If someone says that a beautiful woman inspired them to make a painting of angels, does that mean the source of inspiration is responsible for the painting? NO.

Your example is wrong, of course, because it could easily be said that inspiration is responsible for the result it inspires, just as it could be said that Tolkien is responsible for the fantasy genre as it lives today, since he is the one who started it and is still the chief inspiration for its writers. This doesn't do anything to absolve the current writers of their responsibilities, it simply puts the onus on the originator. Just as we say Nazism is responsible for hatred and bigotry today, we do not absolve the individual of their own responsibility, we simply recognize that it is shared. You want to shift all of the responsibility away from the ideology while paying lip service to your own cooked-up notion of "inspiration," and I'm calling you on it.

And who do you think you're kidding? Either those quotes were an attempt to absolve Islam of any role in the violence and murder, or you're genuinely confused regarding the concept of responsibility. I suppose the choice is yours: Dishonesty or ignorance?

[James R]

Balerion and seagypsy:

I have received complaints from both of you. It seems to me that neither of you is much interested in discussing the topic.

I will therefore close the thread. Feel free to continue to insult each other via PM. I doubt that anybody else is much interested.