Separate Physics and Mathematics Forums.

[Sibilia]

Hello, I recommend to separate Physics and Mathematics. Make two subforums.

There is more flexibility.

[rpenner]

Would you care to make a reasoned argument for your position?

[Sibilia]

rpenner says:
Would you care to make a reasoned argument for your position?

1- Physics is a natural science and Mathematics is abstract.

2- Physics is experimental and Mathematics is theoretical.

3- Physics is a particular science and Mathematics is general.

[rpenner]

Physics is about comparing precise models of nature with nature, which requires mathematics.
Physics is experimental and theoretical, but between two theories (General Relativity and the Standard Model of Particle Physics) every observation of the universe has been summarized within experimental precision, and therefore being able to calculate from these theories is equivalent to at least hundreds of thousands of man-years of experiment and observation. Science is progressive, so unless you know where we've already been, one can't expect to make progress.
Both Physics and Mathematics are more general than any forum post can explore.

[prometheus]

On the contrary

1- Physics is a natural science and Mathematics is abstract.

Physics and mathematics share a great deal of ground (actually, mathematics is the tool that physics uses, and I don't mean that is a disparaging way).

2- Physics is experimental and Mathematics is theoretical.

Physics has a very strong theoretical element, but I will agree that the goal of physics is to describe how the universe behaves in experiments. Modern theories of physics are formidably challenging, and require specialists to develop and understand them.

3- Physics is a particular science and Mathematics is general.

You've obviously never been to a maths class. Mathematicians are some of the most obsessive details oriented people you will ever meet. That's one of the reason why their skills are so highly sought after.

[Sibilia]

I have nothing against mathematicians, but not everything can be explained with numbers and formulas.

The world is also beautiful.

[rpenner]

And yet while physics and math can be beautiful, beauty is neither physics nor math.

[quadraphonics]

Physics is about comparing precise models of nature with nature, which requires mathematics.

That same argument would also demand that we merge math and engineering fora together, if we take it seriously as an argument for keeping math and physics merged. At the end of the day, physics is not mathematics, and mathematics is not physics.

I think that separating the physics and math fora is a pretty good idea on its face. As it is, we get a lot of threads that are ostensibly about a mathematics question, but which sort of turn into physics discussions instead. Likewise there's plenty of math that isn't particularly germane to physics.

Regardless of the strength of the arguments for splitting the fora, I'm not hearing any actual positive arguments for keeping them merged here. Quibbling about the details of Sibila's arguments is not the same as actually arguing that the two subjects are best merged.

I also think architecture and engineering should be split apart. Or anyway there ought to be some place where electrical engineering fits in - it doesn't belong in Architecture and Engineering, nor in Computer Culture, nor in Physics and Math. Meanwhile, a great deal of the people generally knowledgeable in math and science that we ought to want to attract here are electrical engineers, so it's odd that a "Science Forum" with so many subfora about so many things that have nothing to do with science or math continues to signally fail to encourage electrical engineering discussions.

[Sibilia]

Quadraphonics says:
I also think architecture and engineering should be split apart. Or anyway there ought to be some place where electrical engineering fits in - it doesn't belong in Architecture and Engineering, nor in Computer Culture, nor in Physics and Math.

Good observation.

[Syne]

I have nothing against mathematicians, but not everything can be explained with numbers and formulas.

The world is also beautiful.

That is a subject for philosophy, i.e. qualia, not physics.

[Gustav]

Would you care to make a reasoned argument for your position?

there is none to be had in this forum of dullards and simpletons





that degree of specialization and categorization is just plain ole incomprehensible to us, right, rpenner?
what is commonsense for the folks at pf is not immediately apparent to us

[Gustav]

oooh
that reminds me.....

Occupy SciForums: Day 245





*Rename UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters to Ufology

[James R]

that degree of specialization and categorization is just plain ole incomprehensible to us, right, rpenner?
what is commonsense for the folks at pf is not immediately apparent to us

Look around you. We do not pretend to be physicsforums. We do not aim to emulate physicsforums. We do not want to be a copy of physicsforums.

Besides, we were here first.

[Sibilia]

Oh!!!, Spenner is the leader in http://www.physforum.com. I was going to join the forum, but I don't know if I should.

[quadraphonics]

Look around you. We do not pretend to be physicsforums. We do not aim to emulate physicsforums. We do not want to be a copy of physicsforums.

Besides, we were here first.

So.... you are against splitting the math and physics fora because that would make SciForums too much like physicsforums or.... ???

[przyk]

At the end of the day, physics is not mathematics, and mathematics is not physics.

That's true. They're different disciplines with different goals (mathematics isn't even an experimental science), but they also share a sort of symbiotic relationship: physics draws heavily on advanced mathematics, but physics is also a major source of inspiration for developing new mathematics. Many of the regular posters in physics & math also post on both subjects. As far as I've seen there aren't really two separately identifiable physics and math subcultures in the physics & math subforum.

If there's going to be a discussion about whether the physics and math subforum sould be split, I would think it's going to be motivated by more pragmatic/social considerations like how many physics and math threads get started (I get the impression a separate math subforum wouldn't see much activity), specialisation of threads (most math threads seem to be highschool or first year university-level homework problems), and basically what the regular posters there want (the idea of splitting the subforum could be killed just by general apathy: it's always worked fine that way, why change it now?).

[quadraphonics]

As far as I've seen there aren't really two separately identifiable physics and math subcultures in the physics & math subforum.

True enough, but that's something of a chicken-and-egg question, no? I.e., if we had different subfora, perhaps each one would have its own subculture. Likewise, it's no surprise that the combined subforum has a single subculture.

Moreover, there are other disciplines that also have tight relationships with mathematics, and which are given short shrift by this arrangement (electrical engineering and computer science, for two obvious examples). I would hope that a math subforum would attract a cross-section of people from different disciplines, just as math departments in universities do.

[James R]

So.... you are against splitting the math and physics fora because that would make SciForums too much like physicsforums or.... ???

I haven't said that I'm against the idea of splitting the forum.

[Sibilia]

Posted by Quadraphonics:
Moreover, there are other disciplines that also have tight relationships with mathematics, and which are given short shrift by this arrangement (electrical engineering and computer science, for two obvious examples). I would hope that a math subforum would attract a cross-section of people from different disciplines, just as math departments in universities do.

That's right, Mathematics is not just Physics.

Posted by James R:
I haven't said that I'm against the idea of splitting the forum.

What are you stopping?

Regards.

[Gustav]

Oh!!!, Spenner is the leader in http://www.physforum.com. I was going to join the forum, but I don't know if I should.

penner would love to have you
need help packing?