The Death Tolls of Socialism And Capitalism

[superstring01]

There is no way the United states could be responsible for killing 95 million Indians as there weren't anywhere near that number of Indians alive in the area that became the United states as of 1776 (if ever).

The total Pre-Columbian population of the area that became the United States is estimated at between 1 and 18 million, and the population had declined dramatically due to disease long before 1776.

You seriously expect RedStar to accept anything but the most horrific figures that paint the USA in the worst light while simultaneously denying the horrific figures from communism?

Don't bother. It's like trying to argue with someone who believes in astrology. Though, this entire thread has been enjoyable.

~String

[madanthonywayne]

You seriously expect RedStar to accept anything but the most horrific figures that paint the USA in the worst light while simultaneously denying the horrific figures from communism?

Don't bother. It's like trying to argue with someone who believes in astrology. Though, this entire thread has been enjoyable.

~String

Sure, but that little gem was so absurd that I couldn't resist correcting it.

[Carcano]

For clarification, I say socialism and not communism because states such as the Soviet Union and Maoist China were socialist implementations - this is really just a semantics thing, but actual communism obviously has never existed since it must be international. You can call them communist if you want. The following is obviously my interpretation and I'm interested and open to your thoughts.

Excellent thread comrade...however we should clarify what is meant by socialism and capitalism.

The word 'capital' originally referred in latin to 'head' of cattle...which is how a family's wealth was measured before the introduction of money.

Capitalism as Marx criticized it was a systemic reaction to the introduction of technology. This is clear from Engels's excellent book "The condition of the working class in England' in which he argues that at first, industry actually made the common man poorer in a society where only the few had voting rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Con...ngland_in_1844

Aside from this definition, socialism as a system of central economic planning is the default condition in all successful societies from primitive ones to modern times.

This is nothing NEW...and is so because it ideally places the long term public interest over short term private interests.

Look into the history of Constantinople for example, and try to imagine it surviving for a thousand years as a capitalist city state???

[Gerhard Kemmerer]

Aside from this definition, socialism as a system of central economic planning is the default condition in all successful societies from primitive ones to modern times.

This is nothing NEW...and is so because it ideally places the long term public interest over short term private interests.

???

A society cannot survive in the long term through usury - using the poor or other poorer nations as capitalism has,

but "long term public interest over short term interests"?

People have short term lives, and it seems like communism's long term interests override all of life's interests, and for what, some strange control, a huge documenting beast that serves who or what?

As I have said before, you don't hear of Westeners wanting to defect to a communist country, but it has been the other way around since the whole thing started.

But now that those socialist and draconian laws are creeping into free countries, where will the intelligent flee to? No place to go for freedom and life.

One global prison. Happy now comrad?

[Carcano]

People have short term lives

Depends on what you compare it to...humans certainty have to think longer term that most animals because we rely on planning and group co-operation. Agriculture for example requires more long term strategies than hunting or gathering.

As I said, even primitive stone age societies rely on socialism to survive.

An extreme example of short term thinking in modern human neurotics is the lifestyle of the drug addict or gambler...who pisses away the future for an immediate high.

[Gerhard Kemmerer]

Depends on what you compare it to...humans certainty have to think longer term that most animals because we rely on planning and group co-operation. Agriculture for example requires more long term strategies than hunting or gathering.

As I said, even primitive stone age societies rely on socialism to survive.

An extreme example of short term thinking in modern human neurotics is the lifestyle of the drug addict or gambler...who pisses away the future for an immediate high.

There is wisdom in the above,

then again alcoholism is high in communist countries. And it seems to crop up whenever capitalism has bought about similar oppressive conditions.

The short term thinking of here and now only, often increases after a war.

While people do have tendencies to be irresponsible, authorities have a history of enabling crime and then punishing the same, all a game to have power and control.