There's a Black Hole at the Cosmic Core

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Peter Lamont, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    There are 2 (two) kinds of expansion - the kind that 1) starts fast and slows down, and the kind that 2) starts slowly and speeds up.

    The first kind 1) is an Outward Expansion (explosion, Big-Bang) and the second kind, the kind that speeds up (accelerates) is Inward.

    Air approaching the nozzle of a working Central-Vac will speed up and lose pressure (which is the same as expansion - according to Boyle).

    Each time a bird flaps its wing, it makes a (free) vortex. The Outside of any such vortex turns only slowly, but air there will speed up as it loses pressure and expands on its way to the center.

    A snowball rolling down a snowy bank will expand as it speeds up. The snowball is responding to the gravity emminating from Earth's Center of Mass. It's going in.

    Actually, any speeding up expansion is Inward. It was in 1998 they found the expansion of the Observable Universe was speeding up- we're going in, not out. QED.
     
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  3. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    Beyond blanket assertions do you have anything to justify your position? Could you, for instance, provide a model of gravity and cosmology which predicts the observations made in regards to universal expansion yet has us actually falling into a black hole? If you cannot and just continue to make baseless assertions then I'll be kicking this to the pseudo-science subforum.
     
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  5. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    What happens to spacetime inside a black hole?

    I'm not sure how much this helps or hurts the OP, but it was interesting.
    Also, welcome to the forum Peter Lamont

    http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=652
     
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  7. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Blanket Assertions? All my assertions I intend to prove. A model? The Cosmos is a vortex, much like the Whirlpool Galaxy or our own Milky Way, complete with a black hole at the center - the commonest shape in the Universe.
    There's no such thing as a Big-Bang, neither does Dark Energy exist. We're sepeeding up because we're falling, falling into a Black hole.
    On news that the Observable Universe was expanding, one Belgian cleric, LeMaitre ASSUMED the entire universe was expanding and invented a Big-Bang to account for this. No one hase ever observed this expanding universe and it remains unproven. In 1998, when they ftound the expansion was accelerating, Modern Scientists, instead of reevaluating their Big-Bang, promptly fabricated an Anti-Gravity force they called Dark Energy - except Anti-Gravity droesen't exist. Something else that doesn't exist is an Outward Expawnsion that accelerates. The only kind of expansion that accelerates is Inward. (Which is logical, if you think about it.)
     
  8. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Absolutely Fascinating!!! Tho' I myself beieve Black Holes exist, you make some veryninteresting points. What you can see from inside a black hole is a matter of speculation - but I have to thank you for enriching my thread with your logic. Event horizons? I never even thought that far.

    But people have the wrong idea about black holes, and how active they are. It's the growing mass of the black hole that bends inward the orbit of the stars circling - that's what gives galaxies their spiral shapes.
     
  9. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Does that mean you think we are falling into the Milky Ways supermassive BH core? Where exactly do you think we are in relation to the event horizon in your cosmic model of our universe?

    The Big Bang is an unfortunate name that stuck. It's simply a way to describe an expanding universe based on the red shift of light coming our way from almost all other galaxies in the universe. So I hope you have a good explanation for that red shift. Dark energy is just a place holder for whatever is causing the expansion to be speeding up

    If we were falling into a BH, wouldn't you expect all the other galaxies to be falling into the BH too? If so how do you explain all galaxies appear to be moving away from us in all directions? If we are falling they should all be moving in the same direction wouldn't you think?
     
  10. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Where exactly are we? According to the 'Seven Samurai' of the late eighties, we (the entire Virgo Cluster) are falling into the Hydra-Centaurus Super Cluster (HCSC) that we can never reach because the HCSC is moving away from us faster than we are approaching it - into 'The Great Attractor' (Discovered by these Seven Samurai.) The Great Attractor, it has been found by certain 'alumni' of these Seven Samurai, is in its turn falling into an even more massive object - the 650 million light years distant 'Shapley Concentration.'
    This Shapley Concentration seems to me to be the beginning or end of a Galaxy.

    Now, notice please that as we go in, these 'objects' become ever more massive. That agrees with my idea that the Universe 'evolved' slowly and the expansion began only slowly.

    The 7 Samurai looked in the 'Zone of Avoidance' the other side of the Milky Way. That's the direction we're headed, and our final destination, Mable (this is the Mable Theory) lies the other side of our Galaxy, and off to one side (at our two o'clock). Which side I know not because I don't know how much our path is curved (there are no straight lines in Space - tho' every picture I see of the Big-Bang has us expanding in perfectly straight lines.) As to your second question, I hear the Big-Bang is important - everything in the Universe was contained in a space less than an atom. That's what I read. Are you saying different?
    Dark Energy is in no way different to Anti-Gravity! it's the same thing with a 'cooler' sounding name but Anti-Gravity is running your Universe - and mine is run by Gravity. Anti-Gravity (Dark Energy) doesn't exist, and dressing it up doesn't make it real. What's real is the Red-Shift. The stars furthest from us are expanding fastest.

    I'll abandon this theory soon as someone can tell me of a speeding up expansion that isn't Inward (other than your messed up Universe) OR an Outward Expansion that speeds up (other than your messed up Universe.)

    Other Galaxies moving away from us? When you're falling, in Space, you don't know it - you can't tell. All forces acting on you seem equal. You may wonder why a huge object is approaching you.

    We (in the Observable Universe - 'OU') are falling (Newton) and therefore gaining speed which is causing us to Lose Pressure (Bernoulli) and expand (Boyle) and cool (the Joule-Thomson effect). With all forces equal, a system will expand evenly. Anything I write, that you don't understand, please tell me about it.
     
  11. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    This was completely nonsensical.
     
  12. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Hi AlexG and welcome to my thread!
    I wonder what part you didn't understand. Do you understand that we're not going out, we're going in? Do you understand this Inward Expansion, the kind that speeds up (like the expansion of the Observable Universe)?

    I'll make a deal with you. If you - or anybody else - can tell me about one Outward Expansion that speeds up (apart from your backwardse Universe) OR:-

    One expansion that speeds up that isn't inwards (other than your backwards Universe) then I'll give up this thread, as well as the whole Mable Theory and I'll admit your Big-Bang (now almost a hundred years old) is right.

    Now, World - if you can't do that, the above challenge - then you should start to pay attention to what I say.

    I say there's a black hole (Mable) at the center of the Universe, and we're faling into it. That's why we're accelerating. Acceleration leads to Loss of Pressure (Bernoulli) and that's the same as Expansion, according to Boyle (of Boyle's Law). Of course, Expansion leads to Cooling Down (the Joule-Thomson Effect).

    People used to think Man was made 'Poof,' just like in the bible. Then Darwin showed us Man 'evolved' slowly.
    People still think the Universe was made 'Poof,' just like in the bible, but I'm saying the Universe evolved, slowly - from a huge Hydrogen Cloud, the 'Original Cloud' that Gravity collected and which went critical in the center - rather in the same way our sun (Sol) fused in a nuclear fire - just on a much bigger scale.

    The center, where Pressures and Temperatures were highest, evolved fastest, and black holes appeared there first. These black holes 'ate out' the center, causing it to go from a hot, highly compressed, ultra-compacted state to a cold, totally decompressed, highly expanded state we can watch developing from here.

    Starting at the Outside Edge, the Cosmic Background Radiation (CBR) is a peaceful place, strongly remeniscent of the Original Cloud. There is very little movement here - the Expansion is up to one (1) mile-per-hour here. Further in we find star-nurseries - this is the densest, warmest place in the Universe.

    Further in - a lot further in, you'd even recognise the Consetellations in the nite-sky, and you'd be home. The Expansion is a lot faster here - we can even see that the Expansion is increasing exponentially. Lee Smolin, in his book 'String Theory' agrees with me that the Expansion (of the Observable Universe) is increasing exponentially.

    At the center of the Universe is a 'Void' populated only by a few Hi-Speed Black Holes. This is a war zone - any black hole coming here with an accretion disc will quickly lose it - the accretion disc, or else have it 'ripped off' in some Hi Speed battle with one of the resident black holes.

    That's how the Universe evolved. It didn't suddenly appear - Poof!

    We're going in (like everything else in the Universe - there's nothing going out, 'cept maybe your solar flares or your exploding Nebula. Nothing of any duration) and there's just Gravity. There was no Big-Bang, no Dark Energy, and I'm Einstein's Disciple.

    This theory is horribly repressed. I used to get it out by use of 'handouts' in the street, and once - one man came running back to me! 'This is against Einstein,' he said.
    That so troubled me that when I got home again, at my computer - I thought, no, it really happened - I heard a voice behind me - and the voice said 'Write.'
    Write what? I asked - I was trembling I remember -and the voice said, 'Write that you alone agree with me - that my Cosmological Constant was my biggest blunder. Write that you are my Disciple. Write that you are Einstein's Disciple.' and then it was over. I turned around but he was gone. I did, tho' detect a slight smell of pipe tobacco. He smoked a pipe, didn't he?

    We're travelling thru' Space at a certain speed, but the speed isn't important - just the Rate of Acceleration.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but all my readings on the subject leave me with the distinct impression the Rate of Acce4leration is increasing.

    If there was nothing there at the center, where we are headed - our Rate of Acceleration would decline all the way to the center - as soon as we passed the center we'd be decelerating. That's if there was nothing there at the center.

    If, as I suspect, our Rate of Acceleration is increasing, it would take a black hole there at the center to cause this.

    Well, World, let me know what you think of that. I'll leave you tonite, so sleep tight.
     
  13. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    This is worse nonsense than your previous posts.
     
  14. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Hi again, AlexG,
    So sorry you're not getting this. Do you understand Inward Expansion, the kind that speeds up, like what's happening to the Observable Universe? Maybe you just don't want to understand.
    I'm saying that any speeding up expansion is inwards (which is only logical if you think about it.) We're going in, as I hope you can see.
    If we were going out, we'd be slowing down - but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    When in 1998 they found the expansion was speeding up-, they should have revised their big-bang, but they didn't, inventing a new force - Anti-Gravity. They renamed it 'Dark Energy' but it's still anti-gravity.

    You know what? Anti-Gravity doesn't exist - I read that in Wiki. Now, if you can tell me in what way Dark Energy is different to Anti-Gravity I'd be most interested.

    But it's the same. Your Universe is run by anti-gravity, mine works by gravity. What keeps the moon orbiting Earth? Dark Energy? I hardly think so - try Gravity. Where does Gravity run out? It doesn't - according to Newton it's Universal. Are you smarter than Newton?

    Look, your Big-Bang is almost 100 years old. They didn't know much, back then. We've come a long way since then.
    We now know, for example - the expansion is speeding up.

    That makes a heck of a difference. The only kind of expansion that speeds up is Inward.
    Actually, any speeding up expansion is Inward. I thought I showed this in my original Post. Maybe you didn;t read it. Ah well, perhaps there's no pleasing you!
     
  15. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Do you understand that the observable universe is expanding outward? Do you understand that there is no inward expansion?:bugeye:

    Wow. In depth research and deep understanding.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    This is total and utter nonsense.

    This definitely belongs in the cesspool.
     
  16. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Any speeding up expansion is Inward, Alex G.
    Please pay attention and try to understand this:- Air nearing the nozzle of a working Central Vac will speed up and lose pressure. Now, if you don't know that a 'Loss of Pressure' equals 'Increasing Expansion', then I don't want to be talking to you anymore.

    Can you really not see that the air both speeds up and expands? That's speeding up expansion, AlexG - and it's Inward, into the nozzle. Pleae note a) the slow start b) the speeding up expansion and c) the Inward direction.

    Maybe that's too complicated for you. Let's try an easier model - a snowball rolling down a snowy bank. Now all I'm asking you to see is that the snowball gets bigger (expands) as it speeds up in response to the Gravity from Earth's Center of Mass.

    Can you not see that the snowball expands as it speeds up? Note a) the slow start b) the speeding up expansion and c) the Inward direction.

    How far do you have to go to find this Inward Expansion, AlexG? Only as far as the end of your nose. Every time you breathe IN, your nostrils speed up the stationary air and bring it INTO your lungs. On the way, inside your nostrils, the air will speed up and lose pressure, EXPANDING Alex G, as it goes in your lungs. Note a) the slow start, b) te speeding up expansion and c) the Inward direction.

    Your nostrils act just like a vacuum cleaner when you breathe in.

    I don't know, AlexG, if you're able to grasp any of this. What I'm trying to show is that any expansion that speeds up is Inward.

    Now, can you tell me one thing different from Dark Energy as compared to Anti-Gravity? No, you can't.

    Or a single Outward Expansio0n that speeds up- Apart from your backwardse Universe?

    Or a single speeding up expansion that isn't Inward? - apart from your backwards Universe?

    No, you can't. Any speeding up expansion is Inward, until you show me I'm wrong. We're going in, AlexG - not out.

    You like to tell me I'm wrong - too bad you can't show me where!
     
  17. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    This is simply nonsense. We see distant galaxies receeding from us. How you manage to twist this into an 'inward expansion' is beyond rationality.

    Now that we have the internet, cranks don't have to stand on street corners. Such are the benefits of technology.
     
  18. Prof.Layman totally internally reflected Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think a black hole at the cosmic core fits into Alan Guths research on inflation, along with many other proposed Big Bang models. His paper said that the energy of the expansion of the universe could be seen as being the counterpart for the increase in mass after the moment of creation. Also, black holes don't explode, in fact they are defined as being a place where nothing can escape. Black Hole = No Bang.
     
  19. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    AlexG,
    I see your problem. Your Universe is much too small. Mine is a lot bigger.
    Those distant galaxies you talk about - they are not at the 'outside edge' of the Universe - they are at the outside edge of the Observable Universe - that tiny part of the Universe that we can know about!

    Now I just know, before I start - that this is going to make you mad, but there's something I just have to say...
    Nobody has ever observed the outward expansion of the Universe - it remains without evidence.
    The expansion of the Observable Universe is amply documented. Why don't we stick with what we know, AlexG, and see what it tells us.
    Knowing what is happening in the Observable Universe can certainly help us with the 'overall picture,' and it's this overall picture, surely - that we're all striving to find?

    Okay, what's happening to the Observable Universe? What do we know? Perhaps we know something now that the rev. LeMaitre didn't know in 1927. Could that be possible?

    Well, AlexG - not only is it possible, it's what actually happened. What is it we know now that the rev. LeMaitre didn't know in 1927? If you don't know I'll have to tell you, won't I. And this is going to make you really mad.

    This shortness of temper, AlexG - I have noticed it in other people too. Myself, I believe it's caused by alcohol. Only you, of course - know if I'm right or wrong. Am I right?

    All outward expansions start fast - but then they slow down. That's just the nature of the beast, AlexG - not much you or I can do about that. Well in 1998 they decided to find out - once and for all - how fast the expansion of the Universe (like I say - absolutely no evidence) was slowing down.

    Slowing down? Why should it be slowing down?
    Well fighting Gravity all the way outward, and knowing what surely everyone must know about outward expansions - that they're gonna slow down - that being the nature of the beast etc. etc. everyone - yes everyone (I remember it all) was surprised when it was found the expansion is speeding up (accelerating.)

    Modern Scientists, instead of re-assessing their Big-Bang - promptly invented a new force, Anti-Gravity. Now, there's just one problem with Anti-Gravity - it doesn't exist! (If you'r so sure it does, show me some.)

    So they re-named it Dark Energy, a much 'cooler' sounding name and much easier to sell, of course! If you think, AlexG, that Dark Energy is any different to Anti-Gravity I know you would tell me how?

    But the only kind of expansion tat speeds up is inward. It's only logical if you think about it.

    Outward expansions start from an initial 'kick' and immediately start to slow down.
    Inward expansions are responding to an attractive force that cause them to speed up. Because 'air' is a wonderfully elastic medium, the effects caused by this speeding up are easily understood.

    In the case of the Vacuum-Cleaner, the speeding up is accompanied by a loss of pressure (which equals increasing expansion.) All I'm trying to make you see, AlexG - is that this expansion, which is also speeding up, is the same kind as the Observable Universe is engaged in - Inward.

    By the way, did you ever consider - maybe I like passing out handouts. I like the snowball expanding and speeding up on its way in. It's just so natural and easy to grasp. Can't you see, tho', AlexG, that the expansion is Inward - the kind of expansion that has an attractive force pulling it in?

    That attractive force is Gravity, AlexG, Gravity emminating from the Center of Mass of the Universe.

    If we're going in, and we certainly are, that means there was no Big-Bang, there is no Dark Energy, we're not fighting Gravity - we're conforming to it.

    There's just Gravity. This is the 'Mable Theory' - a delightfully simple theory.

    All I'm doing is going with the evidence. The laws of Physics say we are expanding Inwardly - drawn by Gravity from the Center of Mass of the Universe. This ongoing attraction is causing the expansion to speed up.

    But there's more - what is there, at the Universe's Center of Mass?

    That depends entirely on our Rate of Acceleration (R of A) and whether it is increasing or decreasing. If there was nothing there, at the center, our R of A would decline all the way to the center. When we passed the center we would immediately begin to decelerate.

    Everything I read tells me our R of A is increasing and it would take a black hole to cause this. That black hole is Mable, the oldest coldest object in the Cosmos. Mable, keep in mind, has the most attractive body in the Universe.
     
  20. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense. It's been observed and measured with increasing precision since 1926.

    There is no center of mass of the universe.

    Everything between the first sentence and the last sentence is simply total nonsense.

    Go back to standing on the corner passing out garbage.
     
  21. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    Welcome, Prof.Layman,
    Something I must point out - the expansion of the Universe has never been observed and is therefore without evidence. The expansion of the Observable Universe (OU) is well documented. Are we together on this?

    People used to believe Man was made, 'poof' just like in the Bible - but Darwin showed us Man evolved only slowly. People still believe the Universe was made, 'poof' just like in the Bible - but I say the Universe evolved only slowly.
    There was no 'moment of creation.'

    You should read what I have already written. You're right about exploding black holes - also without evidence.

    I'm saying any speeding up expansion is inward. I'm saying we're going in, not out. I would like your opinion on this, whether you can see it or not. From what I've written. I worry that I haven't explained it well enough.

    Do let me know, one wawy or the other.
     
  22. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Really? Well, with the evolution of life there was indeed a moment of creation. Life did not always exist - there was the creation of life (however that came about) and then life evolved. The same is true of the universe, it was created and it has evolved.
     
  23. Peter Lamont Registered Member

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    AlexG,
    Are you going to tell me somebody stood outside our Universe, and noticed it was expanding? Who was that person?
    Or are you trying to tell me the Observable Universe (OU) is expanding? Now come on, AlexG - it has to be one or the other!

    As for the expansion, it's caused by our speed thru' Space. If you fall, you'll speed up. I think Newton was the first to quantify this. Speeding up leads to a Loss of Pressure - Bernoulli was the first to associate speeding up with a Loss of Pressure, but any Loss of Pressure equals Increasing Expansion according to Robert Boyle and that'll cause cooling down - the Joule-Thomson Effect.

    When you fall in Space, you can't tell you're falling. Conforming with Gravity, all forces will seem equal to you. Any system will expand evenly if all forces acting on it are equal. I don't have any problem with this, do you?

    FRom here, I can't see what else you've written. Can you understand this Inward Expansion - the kind that speeds up? I have tried hard to explain it to you, AlexG - but like I say, there are some people who don't want to be enlightened.

    That's sad. I can't help it, but I would rather argue with somebody whose thoughts are not so rigid.
     

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